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 Post subject: Parker hull/prop database
PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:50 pm 
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Per Kevin's request. Kevin--you might want to put a "sticky" on this topic.

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Last edited by grouperjim on Wed Aug 22, 2007 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:54 pm 
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Location: St Pete/Islamorada
2006 2320 F250/bracket

My new numbers with engine in top hole with Merc rev 4 19 pitch are:

400 lbs gas
400 lbs of people
100 lbs of gear

WOT 45mph 5600 rpm
2.6 mpg 35mph 4600 rpm
2.8 mpg 30mph 4200 rpm
3.0 mpg 25mph 3700 rpm


More prop testing. 2006 Parker 2320/f250 same load and conditions as above.

Prop: (3 blade) Merc Mirage Plus/Yamaha SWS (15 1/4 x 19)

WOT 47 mph 5800 rpm
2.7 mpg 35 mph 4600 rpm
2.9 mpg 30 mph 4200 rpm
3.0 mpg 28 mph 4100 rpm
2.5 mpg 25 mph 4000 rpm

Note: Steering with a three blade v. four blade is MUCH easier because the Rev 4 has such a wide cone of thrust (stern lifting prop) v. the narrow cone of thrust on the Mirage/SWS (bow lifting prop). Steering: 3 blade=easier, 4 blade=harder/stiffer.

Also, the mpg/rpms really starts to decay with the Mirage/SWS at 25 mph because of the weight of the boat and the amount of slip as the boat is struggling to stay on plane. The boat is not efficiently on plane until 28 mph with the Mirage/SWS. Anything lower than that is not going to work even with the 12x24 tabs.

For me I have to be able to stay efficiently on plane in the 20-25 mph range due to the steep seas we often get offshore in the Gulf. I'm definitely going to stay with the Rev 4 even though steering is a bit stiffer. I am going to try the Rev 4 17 pitch next and with post data upon completion.

More prop testing. The monsoon finally subsided long enough for me to get out at try a Merc Rev 4 17 pitch.

WOT 44 mph 6000 rpm
2.5 mpg 35 mph 5000 rpm
2.8 mpg 30 mph 4400 rpm
3.1 mpg 25 mph 3900 rpm

Overall I like this prop the best. There is a nice cruising rpm range from 3800-4200 with about 3.0 mpg efficiency. In that range the engine sounds very smooth. There is no significant bogging down in higher seas either. With this prop the F250 pushes along effortlessly. Although 35 mph is less efficient due to the 5000 rpms needed to get there, I don't really get to go that fast in any kind of real sea anyway just basically due to the helm being that far forward on the hull. So, I am happy with the 3.0+ mpg in the 25-28 mph range.

jim

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:11 pm 
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2008 2100CC with F150 and black stainless 15-1/4 x 15 three blade prop.

Two guys, full fuel load (100 gallons), cooler, ice, rods, and the usual junk:

6000 rpm and 40 mph+ on both the GPS and built in Yamaha speedo. I think there is a little more if I play with trim.

4000 rpm delivered 25+ mph, and 4500 produced just about 30 mph. I "cruise" at 25 or so, and with a little trim fiddle, I was able to achieve this with 3900 rpm, and about 6 gph.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:13 pm 
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'Sticky' done Jim. IMPRESSIVE numbers there!

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 30, 2007 8:43 pm 
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Do all the F250's come with the 15.5x17 3 blade black stainless?


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:05 pm 
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Depends on the hull to which the f250 is attached. On the 2320 I have seen the 15x17 black teflon coated SS prop , and also a smaller diameter maybe a 14.5 x19 black teflon SS. I am not sure about the 25 hulls. I don't think Parker would put a 19p on the 25. I could be wrong.

All Parker really cares about is getting the engine to 6000 rpm. Unfortunately they are obligated to put a Yamaha prop on the motor being that it is a Yamaha. IMO Mercury makes a better prop than Yamaha. Yamaha makes a good prop, but Mercury puts a lot of research into their prop division which I think gives them the edge in prop design/efficiency.

Expensive little baubles aren't they.

jim

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:27 pm 
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I did a ton of prop testing in `05 and `06. Three blade, four blade, aluminum and stainless...

Right now my motor is wearing a Mercury Mirage Plus (17p) that I bought used. The previous owner had it tweeked with a little more cup, which I really didn't need... but so far it does pretty well.

The 'cruise sweet spot' for my 1997 Yamaha 225 OX66 is 4200 to 4400 rpms (when the Bay chop allows it). At 4400 she is running 27 kts with full fuel and 3 people aboard and burning 13 gph. I think that is pretty good for as much gear as I carry. :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 8:47 pm 
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Megabyte wrote:
I did a ton of prop testing in `05 and `06. Three blade, four blade, aluminum and stainless...

Right now my motor is wearing a Mercury Mirage Plus (17p) that I bought used. The previous owner had it tweeked with a little more cup, which I really didn't need... but so far it does pretty well.

The 'cruise sweet spot' for my 1997 Yamaha 225 OX66 is 4200 to 4400 rpms (when the Bay chop allows it). At 4400 she is running 27 kts with full fuel and 3 people aboard and burning 13 gph. I think that is pretty good for as much gear as I carry. :shock:


"When the Bay chop allow it" is really the operative phrase for the Bay. I recently sold a 2520XL and even though it would "do" 40 mph flat-out with an F225, my average cruising speed during the "usual" chop was closer to 20-23 mph.

My new 2100CC with an F150 also cruises comfortably (for the engine and the boat in decent conditions) at around 25 mph+, but that chop can slow me down.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:01 pm 
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Megabyte wrote:
I did a ton The 'cruise sweet spot' for my 1997 Yamaha 225 OX66 is 4200 to 4400 rpms (when the Bay chop allows it). At 4400 she is running 27 kts with full fuel and 3 people aboard and burning 13 gph. I think that is pretty good for as much gear as I carry. :shock:


I'm going to have to check again but I think I'm, doing 25-26 kts at 4500 rpm. I kinda wish I could do that speed at lower rpms. Seems like it takes all of that speed just to stay on plane.

Not sure about the fuel consumption.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 9:05 pm 
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I forgot to add the photo.

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 3:58 pm 
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ScoopsAhoy wrote:
I'm going to have to check again but I think I'm, doing 25-26 kts at 4500 rpm. I kinda wish I could do that speed at lower rpms. Seems like it takes all of that speed just to stay on plane.Not sure about the fuel consumption.


Well I was out today. My estimates were close. Seems like I do about 22 at 4200 rpm, 25 at 4500, 30 at 5000. Forget about doing 3500 to 3800 rpm, won't stay on plane and seems to get "whipped around by any waves. At 4200-4400 I'm getting around 2.2 mpg. Got in the water to see what size prop I have and the only markings I could see were 17T.

I had about 135 gallons of fuel and 300 lbs of passengers.

I dunno. Never owned a PH or Parker before but this things just seems underpowered.

Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:02 pm 
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ScoopsAhoy wrote:
I'm going to have to check again but I think I'm, doing 25-26 kts at 4500 rpm. I kinda wish I could do that speed at lower rpms. Seems like it takes all of that speed just to stay on plane.Not sure about the fuel consumption.


Well I was out today. My estimates were close. Seems like I do about 22 at 4200 rpm, 25 at 4500, 30 at 5000. Forget about doing 3500 to 3800 rpm, won't stay on plane and seems to get "whipped around by any waves. At 4200-4400 I'm getting around 2.2 mpg. Got in the water to see what size prop I have and the only markings I could see were 17T.

I had about 135 gallons of fuel and 300 lbs of passengers.

I dunno. Never owned a PH or Parker before but this things just seems underpowered.

Any thoughts?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 4:06 pm 
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Took this photo today...

Winds out of the South... 15+kts with a 2 foot chop.
I felt I was getting a pretty good ride at this speed.

Image

My boat looked like a salt shaker when I got back to the dock.
Mid-Bay is very salty right now.

Image

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 03, 2007 5:00 pm 
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Wow! That's what I'm talkin about, both in performance and fish on.

The closest Yammi perf bulletin I could find was for a 2520scxl, like mine, but with a 2 stroke 250. Same prop as mine. Same weight (fuel). Not sure what advantages there are to the 2 stroke but, the numbers were

21 mph@ 3500 rpm ( I wish )
29 mph @ 4000 rpm
34 mph @ 4500 rpm

And burning anywhere between 2 - 2.5 mpg.

Now I'm starting to get pissed :evil:

Maybe our most recent "prop tester", Grouper Jim, will see this post and offer his comments.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:54 am 
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By the way, what exact purpose do the mounting holes play in the whole scheme of things? I mean, what difference does having the motor mounted in hole #1 versus hole #2?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:53 am 
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First of all, 135 gallons of gas is a lot of unnecessary weight to be carrying around unless you are headed out for long range fishing trip. I am not a big fan of the Yamaha teflon SS series props. If you read some of the threads by 25 MV owners, you will see that you can dramatically change the performance characteristics (for the better) of the MV hull by putting on some 9x24 or 9x30 trim tabs. The stock 12x12s are woefully undersized and do little more than dig in destroying fuel efficiency. The whole tab issue is a long running complaint that Parker owners have with Parker. The consensus is, that it is a laibility issue (safer to have a benign tab than one that really works but could get you into trouble if deployed incorrectly). The larger tab also helps to mitigate the rear "squatyness" sensation imparted on the hull due to having the engine on a bracket which is common to all boats with this configuration.

As far as what prop to use, I would probably try a Merc Rev 4 17 which will have you planing 20-25 with ease especially if you have the tab upgrade. When you are ready to experiment with props, the most cost effective way is to call Ken at Prop Gods. He has a prop service that will meet you at the ramp and change out props for you until you are happy. His prices are good too. Props retailing at 600-650, he sells for 479.

Leave the engine where it is until you do the tab and prop upgrade. After that you can try to tweak it by moving the engine up a hole, but I'm betting you'll be happy where it is.

Tabs, tabs , tabs. If you don't want to pay to have it done then check posts by myself and Joshdad for the play by play. If you do the mechanical part, I would more happy to come over and make the extra holes go away. Check out the transom on my boat after the upgrade.

FYI: I don't think your boat is underpowered. The MV moves quite nicely with the f250. Just have to get the rear up and hull on plane. The only other option for your hull is twin 150s. Because of the weight of the second engine, a single 250 will give you nearly identical performance numbers. Although handling is better with twins, you also incur twice the maint costs. I have seen the 25 DV powered by a single F250 and think that hull is definitely underpowered. That's why it now comes with the F350 swinging a 16 inch wheel.

jim

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 Post subject: tabs on 2510 wa f250
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:24 pm 
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Location: bodkin creek, maryland
from what i understand from this thread, my boat might perform better with a set of bigger trim tabs and a mercury prop.

wot is around 5500 and 31 miles per hour now. at beginning season i was 6000 and 35.

i keep my boat in the water from april to november. should i pull it and clean it more often than once yearly?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:31 pm 
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I don't keep mine in the water. Dale or Kevin could probably give you better advice. Seems logical though that performance would decline as the end of the season approaches.

Definitely "yes" on the tabs. Don't know anything about your current prop.

jim

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 6:00 am 
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Two things will affect performance... condition of the bottom as well as water and air temperature.

Your best performance will be in the spring when the bottom is clean, and the air and water is still cool.
Conversely, your worst performance will be in the summer and fall when the bottom has some growth or slime on it, and the water and air temps are higher.

If you have the ability to pull the boat and power wash the bottom during the summer, you will gain some benefit of having a clean bottom, but temperature will still be a factor.

If you use ablative bottom paint (as most of us do), extra power washing of the bottom during the season will shorten the useable life of the paint, so that is the trade-off. You'll have to decide if gaining a couple of knots is worth the time and expense that extra cleaning is going to cost you.

Hope this helps.

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:15 pm 
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thanks for the advice. you guys are just great!

and we caught some nice fish this past weekend!

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 11:29 am 
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OKAY:

WOT 6000 RPM, 40MPH, 1.9 MPG.

Getting to 6000 required a little tweaking with the outboard motor trim but it got there.

Parker rep says I just need to add some cup to my 15". 17pitch prop.

What do you guys think?

I'm kinda like grouper jim. I won't be running wot. Would just like good fuel economy and lower rpms doing 25 mph. Right now, I need 4500 rpms to do 25 mph.

On my way to the Tampa Boat Show...


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 Post subject: Add'l Results, 2100CC with F150
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:26 am 
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I previously reported this:

2008 2100CC with F150 and black stainless 15-1/4 x 15 three blade prop.

Two guys, full fuel load (100 gallons), cooler, ice, rods, and the usual junk:

6000 rpm and 40 mph+ on both the GPS and built in Yamaha speedo. I think there is a little more if I play with trim.

4000 rpm delivered 25+ mph, and 4500 produced just about 30 mph. I "cruise" at 25 or so, and with a little trim fiddle, I was able to achieve this with 3900 rpm, and about 6 gph.



This past weekend out on the Patuxent River with my wife aboard and with a buddy aboard, too, with 80 gallons of fuel in the tank and two coolers, plus the bimini top up...

We got 40+ mph at 5900 rpm in flat water. The acceleration is outstanding with the 15-1/4 x 15 prop. The boat jumps right up on plane when you firewall the throttle and you can almost immediately pull back for a smooth cruise. Nice flat wake, too.

I rarely will have more than two or three other people on this boat, so I am well-pleased with the WOT figures, since with the damned chop on the Bay much of time time, running at 25 mph is much more likely, and even more likely many days, running in the low 20s. The fuel burn at cruise is in the low 6 gph range.

When I was contemplating this new boat, I considered for a while going with an F200. I'm glad I didn't...not for my usage on Chesapeake Bay...the ideal match is the F150.




Added 9/30/07


Three aboard, three coolers, fishing fear, 65 gallons of fuel:

6000 rpm, 41 + mph.

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Last edited by hakr on Sun Sep 30, 2007 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 10:08 am 
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Sounds like she's dialed in just right. Thanks for the numbers. I am sure our fellow CP members will use your information when buying a new boat or improving the one they have.

I think we have some good data on the 21DV and 23DV. It would be nice if the 25MV and 25DV guys would step up and post some numbers.

jim

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2004 23 DVCC
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 Post subject: Is there a problem doctor?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 3:40 pm 
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I have a 2300 SE with a 2005 f250. I can't say exactly what prop is on the Motor. It is what came with the yammie. WOT: 6000rpm 40mph. That is all jacked up and trimmed out.. It cruises nicely on plane at about 3000rpm... (30-32mph) and will stay on plane at a fairly slow roll... Next time I'm out...(this weekend) I'll get more solid numbers. Initially, I expected a bit more out of WOT and tended to think there was a problem with the boat and or motor (and there may be). Gas, People, Gear, full livewells etc... do not noticeably impact the performance at any speed. It’s 40mph regardless… My holeshot is probably 1.5 to 2 boat lengths… Since I rarely run more than cruising speed (or less)… I really haven’t given it much more thought, but now reading this thread I’m not so sure… Do you guy think I should be seeing higher top-end numbers?
Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Is there a problem doctor?
PostPosted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:21 pm 
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finnautical wrote:
I have a 2300 SE with a 2005 f250. I can't say exactly what prop is on the Motor. It is what came with the yammie. WOT: 6000rpm 40mph. That is all jacked up and trimmed out.. It cruises nicely on plane at about 3000rpm... (30-32mph) and will stay on plane at a fairly slow roll... Next time I'm out...(this weekend) I'll get more solid numbers. Initially, I expected a bit more out of WOT and tended to think there was a problem with the boat and or motor (and there may be). Gas, People, Gear, full livewells etc... do not noticeably impact the performance at any speed. It’s 40mph regardless… My holeshot is probably 1.5 to 2 boat lengths… Since I rarely run more than cruising speed (or less)… I really haven’t given it much more thought, but now reading this thread I’m not so sure… Do you guy think I should be seeing higher top-end numbers?
Thanks


Yes.

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Last edited by hakr on Wed Sep 19, 2007 5:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

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