Bilge-Pump Buzzer

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Jersey Jim

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This isn't exactly a "marine electronics" question, but more marine electrics. I noticed the other day while in rough seas, that my rocker-switch indicator light came on very briefly for the bilge pump. I'm sure this was doing this many times before I noticed it, but my switch panel mounts vertically and the bilge switch rocker is way below the normal field-of-view. I suspect it is the float-switch paddle occasionally being tossed up in the air, even though the bilge was dry. This reminded me how on my 1801 I always wanted to wire a buzzer close to the helm in order to be able to hear when water is being evacuated. However, my 1801 did not have illuminated rocker switches. I did not realize that the pump-motor lead routed conveniently all the way back to the helm from the float switch. This makes sense, since the "manual/continuous" switch position has to bypass the float-switch. It would seem that all necessary wiring is within inches of where a piezo buzzer would be mounted at the helm. Has anyone done this, or ever felt the need to know if water is truly in the bilge and being pumped out?
 
In my opinion it would more likely be water sloshing around in the bilge then the paddle flopping around in rough seas. I keep my boat on a lift and I really have to raise the bow alot to get all of the water to drain to the stern. I would be more concerned in installing a high water alarm in the bilge than an alarm to tell me the pump is working. Just my opinion
 
HOTPURSUIT":2l9m6hkl said:
In my opinion it would more likely be water sloshing around in the bilge then the paddle flopping around in rough seas. I keep my boat on a lift and I really have to raise the bow alot to get all of the water to drain to the stern. I would be more concerned in installing a high water alarm in the bilge than an alarm to tell me the pump is working. Just my opinion
The reason I don't think it was water, is because at the slow speed at which I was going, in that type of wave action, the light flashed on briefly (1/10 second) & simultaneously as I was lifted up almost off of the seat, each and every time. The action was upward, not rearward. Plus, the pump never came on longer after that, not even for 2 or 3 seconds. Any amount of water would keep the pump running at least a couple of seconds.

Other than a wet and draining rode, water in the bilge from any source is not to be expected, and I want to know about it. Not when it's high, but just when it's there, period. Seems they seal the rub rail joints way better nowadays than they used to also, so that alleviates a nuisance source. If that flashing is to be expected in those type of seas, I can easily delay the buzzer, requiring a minimum pumping of a second or two in order to mask nuisance alarms. At 3 seconds to pump each gallon, I don't imagine a pump would run long anyway, unless there was a problem. By then I'd be digging for the wax ring. :shock: It's the recurrence and the duration I would like to be able to monitor. If the pump failed, it should still be getting power (unless fuse blows), so extra long alarming would also serve as an "early warning" high alarm.

Has anyone done this, other than the typical "high water" alarm from dozens of extra gallons?
 
I can definitely understand why you would want an audible alarm on the bilge pump. It should be easy enough to run a set of wires from the pump to the helm following the rest of the wiring mounted under the gunnel
 
HOTPURSUIT":119jcj0l said:
I can definitely understand why you would want an audible alarm on the bilge pump. It should be easy enough to run a set of wires from the pump to the helm following the rest of the wiring mounted under the gunnel
That's the beauty of it.... pump-wiring access is right behind the helm. The "force pump" option on the helm switch, allows you to send power to the pump, so that means the same wire allows you to "sense" pump power.

Caution, there is a blocking diode wire right at the helm's bilge switch. It acts as a check valve for power. You just need to wire your buzzer on the "cathode" side of the diode. The "anode" side (no band) has a spade lug on it & plugs directly into the helm switch. An inch later, is the wire from the bilge's float-switch/pump-wire junction, crimped to the "cathode" side of the diode (band).

I spent the night on the boat (didnt feel like the hour drive back) and am still down here making tweaks. I will take pic of behind that switch.

Also, I just measured the parasitic loads. 165 mA!!! 150mA was from the Jensen stereo (while off), and 16mA was from a powered antenna (with red LED always lit). I can deal with 16mA, just not 165. So just cut the power wire & re-routed it to a helm rocker for the gps nema 2000 power. The tag on the power wire even states not to wire to continuous source!

BTW, while at it I measured current individually via lifted battery lead & inserted meter, of EVERY electrical load on the boat. I will post list when I get back. I did not measure windlass & trim tab motors, just loads that might be left running without motor running.
 
After finishing some other tweaks on the boat today, I studied what was involved to add an audible buzzer to sound off whenever my bilge pump operates. While under way I could have a gaping hole in my hull, and although the pump may keep up with an 1100 GPH (18 gallons/minute) leak, with even some off-time, I would not be aware of a problem until the pump finally fails or clogs up 2 hours later, or sooner if I'm lucky enough to glance down at the tiny light on the helm's rocker switch.

The good news is, this is the easiest modification you could ever do to your electrical system. All you need is a piezo-electric buzzer, 1 hole (to mount it in), and 2 pieces of 24-inch wire. You may even find a buzzer that mounts with screws behind the helm, not requiring a hole. Simply hook the buzzer's negative lead to the ground buss, and the buzzer's positive wire to the output side (intermittent side) of the helm's bilge rocker-switch (brown wire in pic). This brown wire goes to the bilge pump/float-switch junction. In the pic below you will see that switch being powered by it's mini breaker on the left, but not with a jumper wire like the other breaker-fed switches, but rather with what appears to be an 8-amp size blocking diode. (BTW, I measured bilge pump drawing 3.1 amps) This is the only switch that is powered this way, and this is what I believe they are trying to protects against. If I'm overlooking something, please chime in:

If the 2 following conditions are present... 1) the large battery selector switch is powering the helm's breakers & switches with battery #2 selected, and 2) the bilge pump's float-switch is hard-wired directly to dedicated battery #1 (which it is), then the following 2 more conditions would create an undesirable condition:

1) the float-switch is "floating", causing the pump to operate, and 2) the helm's manual bilge-switch is activated.

What this would do, IF NOT for the blocking diode, would be combine battery 2's power through the rocker switch down the brown wire to the pump, with Battery #1's power coming UP the brown wire from the powered pump. There is a reason that the batteries are paralleled with very large wire, and with a very large switch. If this undesired condition were allowed to happen, large currents could flow between unbalanced batteries through skinny wire, light-duty switch, and 10-amp breaker. This does not even take into consideration the cranking of the outboard with huge currents. Therefore, do not power the bilge rocker-switch with anything BUT the diode, and with the diode band oriented in the proper direction. The banded side of the diode is the "cathode" and non banded side is the "anode". Positive polarity flows "into" the anode, and will not flow into the cathode. It is a form of an electrical check-valve. If the 2 conditions above were to exist, battery 1 positive will be present on the cathode wire of the diode, and battery #2 positive will be present on the anode wire of the diode, but never shall the two meet, and all is safe. I suspect that there is a similar diode on the float-switch end as well, either inline with the battery lead, or coming out of the float switch on it's way to the pump, preventing power from entering the float-switch and making it's way back to the hard-wired battery #1.

The convenience is, if the pump wire is available at the helm (brown wire) in order to "source" power to pump, then that same wire can be used to "sense" power at the pump, all conveniently behind the helm. That sensing is already occurring on the brown wire, in the form of the rocker-switch's indicator light. The buzzer just mimics what the switch-light is doing.

Also, a silicon diode will not conduct as good as a piece of wire. When manually operating bilge pump with helm-switch, 0.6 volts is robbed from the pump. So technically, the float-switch activating will move more water per minute than the helm switch will. By how much, that is a test for another day.
 

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This type switch bounces easy.

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Especially if it is mounted fore & aft in the boat. When it bounces it lights the light and if a bilge alarm is connectes it will turn that on also, along with the pump.

Mounting it cross ways Port to STB will help with that.
 
warthog5":hmwytyqq said:
This type switch bounces easy. Especially if it is mounted fore & aft in the boat......


Yes, I can picture the water driving aft and under that taper in the float, lifting it. Perpendicular would not get that lifted so easily. I wonder how many hundreds, if not thousands of brief surges to the switch and pump that type of float reduces the life of the components by. Especially little mini arcs that take life off the silver contacts, not to mention brushes. I assume those pumps have brushes.
 
Something that could cure your ills is to replace those mercury mechanical switches with solid state bilge pump switches.
I use the Water Witch model 101 switch.
https://waterwitchinc.com/bilge-switches/

Check out the photo below taken on a day when I was cleaning the bilge.
My primary and backup bilge pumps both have the solid state switches.
They are set to activate at different water depths, and are easily adjusted.
Testing them while cleaning the bilge is always a treat. :D
 

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Now if you really want to know every time your bilge pump activates, you can put in bilge counters. :wink:
 

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Megabyte":1e80rfwe said:
Now if you really want to know every time your bilge pump activates, you can put in bilge counters. :wink:
You have THOSE on your boat!? Add totalized time (with count) and they'd be perfect! This way when coming back to the boat after a week, or even longer, one could tell how much demand was on the pumps. I like it!
 
Jersey Jim":33unjq2k said:
You have THOSE on your boat!? Add totalized time (with count) and they'd be perfect! This way when coming back to the boat after a week, or even longer, one could tell how much demand was on the pumps. I like it!

Yep, tho I would offer one caveat...
These units constantly monitor and 'poll' your pumps so there is always some current draw.
If you keep your boat plugged into shore power, no problem. If you don't (and don't run the boat much), they can put a draw on your batteries.
You just need to be aware that they do use power while monitoring your pumps.

In my case, the 1a fuses are removed during nice weather, but installed if there is an impending coastal storm.
If we are expecting bad weather, I also plug my boat in to keep the batteries topped off and ready to power the pumps if needed.
After the storm, I check the counters to see if I've had any activations letting me know if storm water made it into my bilge.

The other item of note...
If you use bilge counters as I have mine set up, you should never see an activation on the backup pump counter.
If you do, it means there is something wrong with your primary bilge pump. :wink:

These counters are generally used on larger boats where the bilge pumps are buried in the engine room mostly unseen.
Larger boats can have multiple pumps located in different areas under floor panels or under the motors.
The counters are generally located near the helm and can warn the Captain that his pumps have activated so they can be given a visual inspection during an engine room check while running, or during a post or pre-run inspection.

In my application, I just wanted to know the health and fitness of my primary pump.
The counter for the backup simply tells me if there is an issue with the primary that needs to be tended to.
 
In my case, the 1a fuses are removed during nice weather, but installed if there is an impending coastal storm.
If we are expecting bad weather, I also plug my boat in to keep the batteries topped off and ready to power the pumps if needed.

Sounds like a good winter project to build you a Solar panel. :)
 
warthog5":2nm55zcx said:
Sounds like a good winter project to build you a Solar panel. :)

Been thinking of that.
Maybe pre-wiring the batteries for a panel that can be plugged in when she is in the slip, and unplugged before getting under way.
Maybe fabricate a rod holder mount for the panel.

Sort of like my solar deck fans.
I pop them out before getting under way and pop in blank covers (so they don't get stepped on).
 
warthog5":3ftijmve said:
Here's you a quick connector.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-Two- ... SwwbdWQk29 In the details toward the bottom of that add they offer a 6ft long harness with inline ATC fuse......

Thanks. I ordered that waterproof 2-pin socket w/connector, plus optional rubber boot (for wiring-side of jack), plus couple of in-line fuses (can never have enough of them). That should make disconnecting my panel from the battery compartment a lot easier & quicker, in order to toss the panel into the dock box prior to getting under way.
 
We could not have had some of the info related to this topic come up at a better time!! We just yesterday had a bilge problem where the rocker switch on the helm would not turn the bilge on. Before we got underway, we flipped the switch and it worked fine (we do that like clockwork for safety sake). We are also in the habit of turning the bilge on and off when we anchor (again just for safety sake). The ride out to Middleground Light was "spirited", so when we arrived there and tried the bilge switch, we found that it didn't work and the switch light did not come on. The automatic bilge still worked when lifting the float switch up though. I crawled under the helm area and saw the diode piece on the floor. I suspect it dropped off after many trips in rough weather. I saw the picture below and I was relieved to see the connection in real life versus the schematic. I don't know how to plug this diode thing back in!! The written posts seem to be at odds with the direction that the diode in the picture is installed. We are mental midgets with electronics, so apologies in advance. The side of the diode with a silver stripe/band is pictured to the side of the switch. The unstriped/unbanded side is to the fuse side. The write up says the opposite or am I just reading it wrong (again electronics are greek to me). I think I can plug this back in but I don't want to toast anything if I do it backwards. Ist this how to put mine back ?

 
nick2120":3l2r7pwe said:
We could not have had some of the info related to this topic come up at a better time!! .................. I crawled under the helm area and saw the diode piece on the floor. I suspect it dropped off after many trips in rough weather. I think I can plug this back in but I don't want to toast anything if I do it backwards. Is this how to put mine back ?


Nick, I never thought in a million years that someone could put this info to use so quickly after posting it. Anyway, I'm glad it is of use to you. Did you go buy another diode? If not, you will need a silicon diode rated to handle maybe 6 amps. My Rule 1500 gph draws slightly over 3 amps. You can't possibly go too big. For convenience sake, you can mount a "full wave bridge rectifier" cube, which is 4 diodes mounted and wired inside one epoxy package, often with 4 spade-lug terminals coming out of it. They are usually rated for 25 amps, and cost a few dollars at radio shack. The only benefit of this approach, is a mounting hole in the center of the cube, and the 4 leads coming out with spade lugs, ready for your wire with crimped-on female (mating) spade lugs. BTW, you would only need to use the CORRECT 2 wires out of the cube, accessing 1 of the 4 diodes. Now back to the original configuration in my boat's pic:

The diode shown has an insulation sleeve placed over it's bare leads in order to prevent touching something it shouldn't. Since the breakers and rocker switches have male spade lugs coming out of their housings for making connections, the diode probably has female spade lugs crimped (or soldered) onto the 2 diode leads.

Think of the diode as a check-valve for gas or liquid, that only passes fluid in one direction. In my pic that you have "Accurately" marked up, the source of continuous "positive" comes from the breaker to the left. It comes out of the breaker and feeds into the diode's anode wire (non-banded) on left of diode. Positive polarity is allowed to flow into the anode and out of the cathode (banded lead) feeding the switch's continuously-powered male spade-lug with the cathode (banded) lead coming out of the diode. The "switched/intermittent" output side of the auto/manual bilge-switch, is shown coming out on the switch terminal "under" the diode, via the brown wire going to the bilge pump. These are two separate switch terminals, just hard to see that they are separate. The diode does not wire directly to the bilge's brown wire.

If your bilge-pump float-switch is hard wired directly to battery #1 like mine is, and you have your large battery selector switch selecting battery #2, then the breakers at your helm are fed with battery 2. Without the diode, when your float-switch comes on, it will backfeed battery-1 positive through the float-switch, into your battery-2 via the bilge switch, through the bilge breaker, and into battery #2, trying to charge it (or help crank your outboard starter). This would happen only if the float is on & manual pumping is on. This is what the diode prevents, or "blocks", as the float switch is only rated for 14 amps, and your battery-2 charge may be lower than battery-1, causing high amperage inrush, or charging. The float-switch is only meant to carry the load of a 3 or 4 amp bilge pump. This would cause repeated bilge fuses/breakers blowing, skinny bilge-wire to overheat, and over-amp your bilge-switch. Also, my rocker switches have an extra terminal on them that gets a negative polarity ground-wire. This is only used to provide the opposite polarity needed to light the switch's built-in indicator lights. Be sure to connect nothing to that terminal. The switch "feed" should only get one wire.... the diode's banded cathode wire. The bilge pump wire should still be connected to the switch's "manual" terminal.

I hope I didn't leave anything out, or muddy the waters even more.
 
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