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 Post subject: 23 DVCC ride
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 9:04 am 
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 7:06 pm
Posts: 92
Location: Haverhill Massachusetts
Running out to the grounds the other day with my buddy. He was in his new 21' Sailfish CC, I'm in my 23' DVCC. He disappeared into the horizon while I had to throttle back to keep the boat from coming apart. If I would have tried to keep up either something would have broke, or someone would have gotten hurt. I have the Rev 4 prop, 24 x 9 Bennett tabs, and this boat still rides like absolute crap in any type of head sea. Can't believe how bad it bangs, pounds, thuds, crashes, creaks and groans in a head sea. Maybe its just me and the way I run it. Second season with it and almost five hundred hours. Maybe I need more time running it to figure it out ??

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 Post subject: Re: 23 DVCC ride
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:34 am 
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Location: Annapolis, MD
jcmcclellan wrote:
Maybe I need more time running it to figure it out ??


That could be. It took me awhile to fine tune my 2520 MVSC.

Slowing down isn't a bad thing... Just remember that Sailfish probably took an even worse pounding that will almost certainly shorten her life.
Impressing your friend isn't the point. Getting out, and returning safely is. :wink:

You might end up being the rescue boat for that Sailfish one day.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 10:58 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 13, 2006 8:21 pm
Posts: 47
Location: Wilmington, NC
JC,
I know the feeling. My friend has a 23' Contender and he eats my lunch in a head sea. I seriously conteplated selling my Parker for a Contender. While I would have gained in a head sea ride I would lose alot of deck space. Since I always carry a load of weight in people and dive gear that trumps the need to sell my boat just for a better 'head sea ride".
The wide beam of the Parker versus the narrower beam of the Sailfish is the big reason your friend left you behind. Also the narrower beams tend to have a deeper "V' entry providing for better head sea performance. The Parker's advantage comes in the deck space and beam sea drifting.
As far as riding better it sounds like you've made two of the better modifications to improve your ride. 4 blade prop and wider tabs. Only option left would be a cavitation plate (see GrouperJim's post). He swears by it and I believe it, I'm just afraid to try it.
I have my boat set up with the same tabs as you and a 4 blade prop as well. When in a head sea with close chop the ride just plain sucks! The only thing I can do is slow down or change headings (Zig Zag to your waypoint)
If I could give any input to Parker on a new design for the 23 it would be to take 6"-8" of beam out, get rid of the worthless transom fish box ( it just doesnt keep anything cool during the summer in the Carolina's) and either build a euro transom or provide some kide of walk thru transom with the engine bracket. They have already taken care of the larger consoles in the newer designs. If they did this I would buy hull #1!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 12:38 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 8:25 pm
Posts: 1491
Location: St Pete/Islamorada
Don't know what to say except here is an example of driving (not over driving) a 23 DV in 4-5 ft seas.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi768KVNa-U

I am sitting way further forward on the pitch axis than the CC. All weight/gear is loaded forward including windlass, 400ft line, 22 lb delta, 35 ft chain in the anchor locker........the more weight forward the better the ride.

We all left at sunrise.....the 30ft + search boats (kingfish boats) with triples got to the scene 20 minutes before me on the 40+mile trip. I ways dry, warm and happy. They were beaten to death, cold, wet and miserable.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:17 pm 
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Location: Haverhill Massachusetts
There's quite a few times when its snotty I'll be honkin along thinking, "damn I can't believe how good this boat rides". Just not in a head sea unless I throttle back to snails pace.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:34 pm 
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Location: Westbrook CT
That sailfish has a VDR hull, stolen right from Carl Mosely aka SeaCraft after the patents ran out.

For a head sea ride, real hard to get any better than that hull right there.

http://moeslyseacraft.com/default.aspx


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Last edited by Bryan 2530 on Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:39 pm 
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Location: Philadelphia, PA
I am with Jim - I would rather be warm and dry then wet and cold. Before I purchased my Parker, I was well aware she does not like a head sea. However, she does have other attributes which offset the head sea ride. Every boat is a compromise.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:54 pm 
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Location: Boston
The sailfish hull design has variable 22 to 24 degree deadrise like a seacraft hull. They have less beam and more deep v degree. That equals a faster boat(power being equal)I have fished on a 23 SF, it seems like a 21' compared to our 23' with full transom and beam. I do wish there was just a little more deep v cut than the 21 degree maybe 23*with the current beam. But yea.., the last time I built a boat, right. The weight issue does make sense. Think of a Pilot House vs. the CC weight distribution on the same 23' hull. I have found keeping the boat trimed with as much bow down tab that is possible and safe seems to lessen the pound while trimming engine up. The unique bow flare seems to need to cut the waves and be in the water, rather than trying to get less hull in contact with the water. I have found the more hull in level contact with the water the better. For running in bigger waves and trying for some speed. As you have done more fine tunning with your boat than I, would like to know your thoughts on trim. I too see a 21' CC buzz by me seemingly with no teeth cracking pound and wonder what the #$?%#

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 3:57 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 8:25 pm
Posts: 1491
Location: St Pete/Islamorada
jcmcclellan wrote:
There's quite a few times when its snotty I'll be honkin along thinking, "damn I can't believe how good this boat rides". Just not in a head sea unless I throttle back to snails pace.


I know what you mean. I fish with a professional Capt with a 26 Sailfish. So I know the ride. We often run into each other at sea, me in mine and he in his. He can outrun me easily in a head sea. I run circles around him in just about any other. His boat is absolutely horrible in a following sea, wet, wet , WET. Water over the T-top wet.

Seeing that we are tit for tat on trim tabs, you have a stern lifting prop and I have a stern lifting plate.......we should get together and do the Permatrim challenge........side by in the Gulf so we can make some comparisons. Thats what I did with a buddy of mine when he put the Perma on his 23 DV. After the side by side, I ordered one the next day.

The deal with the Perma is that it lengthens your pitch axis by pitching the boat closer to the motor foot instead of the actual stern. The hull behaves like a longer boat. This allows you to speed up and just hit the tops in certain head sea conditions, whereas before you could only slow down.

There is a link here somewhere on CP where I talk about the side by side comparison with my buddy.

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Last edited by grouperjim on Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:24 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:14 pm 
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Joined: Sun May 06, 2007 8:25 pm
Posts: 1491
Location: St Pete/Islamorada
FishFactory wrote:
No substitute for deadrise. :wink:


There is some truth to that statement. If you plan to launch your boat off waves and expect a soft landing then 24 or better degrees at the stern will improve that landing. I drive my boat so it stays in contact with the water as much as possible.

I personally prefer the stability that 21 degrees offers while at rest fishing. The deadrise of the DV Parker at the bow is around 45 degrees. As I mentioned in the earlier post, moving weight forward causes the hull to ride more level in the water and brings that 45 degrees of deadrise more into play and improves the ride. IMO an acceptable ride for the way I fish. There are many ways to move weight forward. Just try to avoid using "dead weight" as ballast. Use things that you would normal carry like ground tackle, tools, gear, gas etc. One of the most interesting ways lately was by BradV. He added an extra forward gas tank. 90 gallons I believe.

I have no desire zip a around like a kingfish boat. Slow down and enjoy the ride.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Sep 27, 2009 4:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jul 10, 2006 1:54 pm
Posts: 287
Location: Marblehead, MA
I too wish we had a bit more deadrise than the 21 degrees we have. but no way in hell would I get rid of beam or the fish box (which holds a decent sized tuna just fine, thanks).

Also, you're not going to break anything by bashing into the seas except perhaps your will to fish! These boats are tougher than we are.

As said, all boats are compromises. I think the 23 DVCC has it just about right. For example, I would not trade boat for boat with my buddy's Regulator 23. His rides a bit better but is much smaller to fish from. Also the live well sucks on the Reg.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:23 am
Posts: 71
Location: Little Elm, TX
Is it safe to say the 23DVCC rides considerably better then the 25MVCC?

I think it is actually called the 2500 Special Edition, 16 degrees dead-rise.

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The Blue Waters off the coast of Texas are calling my name! Still saving for that Parker CCDV!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 9:53 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:04 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Niantic, CT
My 2 cents on the whole parker 'ride'

I have a 23 SE and my friend has a 23 regulator and another friend a 25 grady cc. Both the regulator and the grady ride considerably better in the head sea. With that being said, my 23 SE has much more room to fish than the 25/26ft grady. While the grady and the regulator have awesome features for storing gear and icing fish, the parker allows for much more room. The grady and regulator hull designs took much more time and investment (lots more $$$), that's why they cost more and ride better. The parkers are rugged as* boats ready to catch fish.

The price says it all, the parker is by far the cheapest out of the 3. It rides "okay" at best and is an extremely wet boat. However, not once have I felt unsafe. I recently got caught in a nasty little squal offshore and the boat handled fine...we backed down to about 12 knots and were fighting off 6-8/10? foot waves (thought we were in some big trouble for few minutes there). The parker will bend, but it sure won't break.

2 weekends ago they were calling for 3-5's but we really wanted to get out for some bluefins and hopefully a mako. Regardless of the fact we would get beat up, my friends and I all decided to take the parker because it is just so much easier to fish. All we do is put a couple big coolers strapped down to the dance floor in the bow, load them up with ice, throw all the geat in the console, and we're ready to go.

As someone who uses his boat ONLY for fishing, I would not trade my boat for any other in the 24 ft CC and under range.

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Regulator 28 FS
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Niantic, CT


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:08 am 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:23 am
Posts: 71
Location: Little Elm, TX
Saying a hull isn't the smoothest riding is one thing but to say it is extremely wet has me a little dissapointed. I have fished out of "wet" boats (Aquasport 200 Osprey for one) in the Gulf of Mexico and it is not fun. It can turn an okay fishing trip into a nightmare if you ask me. Does everyone have this opinion of the 23 SE hulls? Is the 25 SE any better?

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The Blue Waters off the coast of Texas are calling my name! Still saving for that Parker CCDV!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:39 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:04 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Niantic, CT
Extremely wet is overstatement, my apologies... it is a "wet" boat when there is cross wind. I guess most are..my experience (worked at a marina for 7 straight summers) is that the parker is a fairly wet boat

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 Post subject: Head sea
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 11:29 am 
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Posts: 174
Yep, the Parker struggles a little in a head sea compaired to tru deep V boats. I had a 23 formula that would run circles around my 2510DV in a head sea.

The Parker is far better at anchor. Those deep V boats can be brutal when you are on the hook chumming. Also the parker seems to eat up a side sea (which is always waht I have coming home) and runns great in a following sea.

I'm still having nighmares about the mouth of the Merrimac yesterday afternoon.... but I'm here.


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 Post subject: 23CCDV Ride
PostPosted: Mon Sep 28, 2009 3:15 pm 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:01 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Miami,Florida
I do the same as POGE on my 23 CCDV,I bury the nose, trim motor just a tad and I dont pound,shake rattle or Roll,the carolina flare just sends waves to sides.

Robert


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:47 am 
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Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2007 9:13 pm
Posts: 276
Location: 02642
not to kidnap the 23DV ride topic....
with an enclosure on my 23SE and having run it for 3 seasons now I am still in love with the boat. for all the fishing I do and hours I put on the FishPimp it rocks and has exceeded my expectations. Not like a the way 22 or 24 degree deadrise CC rocks . It trolls nice and steady. It drifts so much better and it sips fuel compared to the bigger deadrise boats running to the Tuna grounds.
I recently had a fellow CP'r on my boat who had the 25 sport cabin mod v and he could not get over how well my 23SE handled and how nicely it fishes with 4 people a 7 rod trolling spread, huge dance floor, accessibility, fishability and a jamming stereo system. And it can be trailered wherever the bite is. That onslow bay boat is sweet but a 9.6 beam. I bought my boat to be able to trailer it and not have to leave it in the water exposed to the elements. Are there times I wish I had more deadrise? sure but with proper trimming of tabs and engines the 23SE is really hard to beat. Yeah in following seas it aint the best. But that being said bring the bow down slow it down and get from point A to point B. With all my fillings still in place.
You can fish it shallow or 200 fathoms and know you are safe.
Parker makes a mean boat. Not a ton of bells and whistles. They leave that to us!

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 Post subject: 23CCDV Ride
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 5:34 am 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:01 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Miami,Florida
JC,

Does your 23CCDV have the forward compartments or is it just open on front bow ??

Robert


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 7:23 am 
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Joined: Sun Jun 21, 2009 10:04 pm
Posts: 573
Location: Niantic, CT
Fish pimp, does your enclosure enclose just around your console or does it have the "wings" that come off onto the gunnels? Any idea how much something liek that costs...sorry if I am taking away from this thread.

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 Post subject: 23CCDV Ride
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 10:10 am 
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Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 12:01 pm
Posts: 274
Location: Miami,Florida
FishFactory,,
It has to be what you said,the new console being forward,I tell you my boat is a battle wagon,just trim the bow down a bit and she will fight the waves,nothing rattles just a solid ride,mine has the forward compartments which I load with all my gear,also mine has the forward seating which I load with ice and drinks and someone is always seating there,that makes for a lot of extra weight on front of boat.

Could be the new design.

Robert


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 1:20 pm 
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Location: Hughesville,MD
Parker wrote:
I am with Jim - I would rather be warm and dry then wet and cold. Before I purchased my Parker, I was well aware she does not like a head sea. However, she does have other attributes which offset the head sea ride. Every boat is a compromise.


Well said...

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 29, 2009 8:30 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 8:23 am
Posts: 71
Location: Little Elm, TX
lol

That happens, not a super busy forum anyway.

Thanks for the CC info BTW!

The aquasport was the worst in a following sea. When riding up the back of the wave the water seemed to stick to the bow and peel up and into the boat. Not good in those type conditions.

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The Blue Waters off the coast of Texas are calling my name! Still saving for that Parker CCDV!


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