BEP Cluster

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baker

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What is the difference between the 80-716-0017-00 and the 80-716-0014-00?
Has anyone installed a BEP Battery Control Center?

Currently I have the standard Parker factory install 2 battery system with Perko switch in aft bilge.
 

12Parker2320

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I’ve been considering the same thing so I can really isolate the batteries. I’d like to have a true start and house battery
 

shawnee83

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This is the one you want.
The 716-SQ-140A-DVSR is an ideal replacement for a battery selector switch. Just remove the selector switch and connect the existing wires to a 716 cluster, no extra wires are required for a fully automatic battery management system. To be used in single Outboard dual battery bank or single alternator Inboard engine dual battery bank.
 

pelagic2530

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What is the difference between the 80-716-0017-00 and the 80-716-0014-00?
Has anyone installed a BEP Battery Control Center?

Currently I have the standard Parker factory install 2 battery system with Perko switch in aft bilge.
As far as I can tell, the difference between the two models you posted is that one is fully remotely operated, by a panel mounted at the helm station. The other only has the VSR/parallel switch remotely operated. Both are probably overkill for a typical Parker installation, unless your battery switches are mounted somewhere that’s pretty hard to access.

The one most often used on here is the one listed by Shawnee above, or it’s horizontal equivalent (716-H-140A-DVSR). They offer the same features (dedicated house/start batteries, emergency parallel, and a VSR that charged your start battery first) but are much less expensive and simpler to install. Unless you really need to control your batteries from the helm station, vice just reaching into the bilge, I’d stay away from the remote switches and control panels.
 

baker

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As far as I can tell, the difference between the two models you posted is that one is fully remotely operated, by a panel mounted at the helm station. The other only has the VSR/parallel switch remotely operated. Both are probably overkill for a typical Parker installation, unless your battery switches are mounted somewhere that’s pretty hard to access.

The one most often used on here is the one listed by Shawnee above, or it’s horizontal equivalent (716-H-140A-DVSR). They offer the same features (dedicated house/start batteries, emergency parallel, and a VSR that charged your start battery first) but are much less expensive and simpler to install. Unless you really need to control your batteries from the helm station, vice just reaching into the bilge, I’d stay away from the remote switches and control panels.
Thanks for the replies.
I'm familiar with that BEP cluster model, as there was one installed on a previous boat that I owned that only had the single charge coming from the motor. That setup seemed to work just fine for a 2-battery (starting/house) battery arrangement.
However, another recent post thread on here has me wondering about the possibility of an aux charge from the motor. I will have to check this out this weekend by staring into the aft bilge awhile and tracing wire, etc. I'll report back my findings and go from there.
 

pelagic2530

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Thanks for the replies.
I'm familiar with that BEP cluster model, as there was one installed on a previous boat that I owned that only had the single charge coming from the motor. That setup seemed to work just fine for a 2-battery (starting/house) battery arrangement.
However, another recent post thread on here has me wondering about the possibility of an aux charge from the motor. I will have to check this out this weekend by staring into the aft bilge awhile and tracing wire, etc. I'll report back my findings and go from there.
I’m not super familiar with the particulars of aux charging cables. But as far as I do understand it, the aux cable is simply another line coming off the engine’s alternator. Both are coming from the same source of power; they simply divide the output of the alternator between two cables. Therefore, they don’t give you any more charging CAPACITY, just another connection.

In the case of the DVSR-equipped BEP clusters, the power coming from the single alternator output (the engine cable) is automatically distributed to both batteries, making sure that the start battery is charged first. In that way, the BEP cluster eliminates the need for the aux charging cable, so long as all your batteries are connected to the BEP switch.

@warthog5 would likely be able to clarify or confirm this as he has a much more in-depth knowledge of these systems than do I.
 

warthog5

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Between this on Square Battery Distribution Cluster for Single Engine with Two Battery Banks | BEP

and This one Battery Distribution Cluster for Twin Outboard Engine with Three Battery Banks | BEP

I've installed over 50 of them.

Look at the schematic.
https://www.bepmarine.com/en/~/media/inriver/327549-18219.pdf

NOTE: the Optional Fuses.

The one between the BEP and House battery is omitted.

The one between the BEP and the switch panel is not a Fuse, but rather a 40amp surface mount Circuit Breaker within aprox 6in to 12in of the BEP
 

baker

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UPDATE:
So it turns out that I have the yamaha isolator aux system installed and working. This was easy to identify since someone placed a nice label next to the 100a breaker switch which says "isolator".
In my brief time researching this, it appears that this system is about equivalent to the BEP system. So why would I change this current system to install a BEP cluster, which would require abandoning the isolator aux?
 

Andy

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UPDATE:
So it turns out that I have the yamaha isolator aux system installed and working. This was easy to identify since someone placed a nice label next to the 100a breaker switch which says "isolator".
In my brief time researching this, it appears that this system is about equivalent to the BEP system. So why would I change this current system to install a BEP cluster, which would require abandoning the isolator aux?
Hi Baker, Could you please post a picture of your labeled Yamaha isolator aux system?
I've been reading all these posts very carefully, (Perko/Guest/BEP discussions) but have kept out of the conversation because I don't understand it; I don't understand it as it relates to our Parker.
What you mentioned does make sense to me.... With our Guest switch on either #1 or #2, with the engine running, the other battery (both batteries) are still receiving charge; 14.1 to 14.5 Volts. (Measured with Fluke Volt/Ohm multi-meter)... With the engine off, and using DC power to run electronics for multiple hours at anchor, (4, 6 or 12+ hours, even overnight) or just drifting for half a day, the battery I selected will occasionally weaken to near 12.0-12.2 V (again, tested with Fluke multi-meter)..... But the 'saved/reserved' battery will still be strong (around 12.7 V static), meaning, the strong battery is not being weakened/drained by the weak/drained battery through the Guest switch. What I'm experiencing, is all I would expect from any battery-switch-system...
Is what I describe here; what we experience on our boat, not the norm? If not, why do the Perko Guest battery switches even have a #1 and #2 setting? If not to create the situation I have, there would be no use to have a #1 and #2 setting. It seems from what I've been reading, that other people with Perko or Guest battery switches are not experiencing what I do, and from your post, what you are experiencing....
 
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warthog5

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Because You do NOT have a dedicated House battery.

What ever position the Perko is in......That battery is powering Engine and House loads.

Have you ever had your electronic's ON....Engine Off......And then Start the engine and the electronic's spike and shut down?

That setup will do that. A BEP will NOT. Because the Relay on the BEP Opens when it seances that Mad rush of current to the Starter motor.....and the electronic's keep getting clean power from the dedicated House battery.
 

Andy

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Because You do NOT have a dedicated House battery.

What ever position the Perko is in......That battery is powering Engine and House loads.

Have you ever had your electronic's ON....Engine Off......And then Start the engine and the electronic's spike and shut down?

That setup will do that. A BEP will NOT. Because the Relay on the BEP Opens when it seances that Mad rush of current to the Starter motor.....and the electronic's keep getting clean power from the dedicated House battery.
Thank you Warthog; I'm 'starting' to get a better understanding... (old dog, new tricks thing?)
I bow to your knowledge and I'm sure the BEP system is the best of the new technology; I'm just trying understand more about why the Guest/Perko's have worked for me, for decades without a hitch. And seems to be doing what it needs to do on the present boat.
1) When the Guest switch is on #1 or #2, and with the engine, you mentioned 'battery is powering the Engine and House loads'; I'm guessing you mean, the battery is powering those, via the alternator; of course the load are 'attached' to the batteries, but with the engine running, both batteries are being kept charged from the engine alternator. (It does not matter if I'm on #1 or #2; both are receiving charge).
2) I have never started an engine with any of electronics powered 'on'. I never have, and never will. It is something I've been taught since the late 1970's. 'don't spike the electronics'.
3) When I stop the engine, just as in 'start-up', I don't stop the engine, until after I power-down all electronics. All electric loads 'off'; then I turn the engines off.
4) When the engine is off, and I'm using either battery #1 or #2 as a 'house' battery, the one I am not using does not drain down; it is held in 'reserve' to re-start' the engine. The 'house' battery will lose voltage/power. I have never not had/saved at least one (last boat, had 6 batteries) battery 'in reserve' to re-start the engine.
5) Is it possible our Parker has some of the 'new-fangled' electronic devices like 'isolators' and such that compensate for the lack of BEP technology, like Baker mentioned above. (Yamaha isolator aux system)...? I posted a photo here of some devices mounted near our batteries. They are not labeled so I don't know what they are.
 

baker

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Hi Baker, Could you please post a picture of your labeled Yamaha isolator aux system?
I've been reading all these posts very carefully, (Perko/Guest/BEP discussions) but have kept out of the conversation because I don't understand it; I don't understand it as it relates to our Parker.
What you mentioned does make sense to me.... With our Guest switch on either #1 or #2, with the engine running, the other battery (both batteries) are still receiving charge; 14.1 to 14.5 Volts. (Measured with Fluke Volt/Ohm multi-meter)... With the engine off, and using DC power to run electronics for multiple hours at anchor, (4, 6 or 12+ hours, even overnight) or just drifting for half a day, the battery I selected will occasionally weaken to near 12.0-12.2 V (again, tested with Fluke multi-meter)..... But the 'saved/reserved' battery will still be strong (around 12.7 V static), meaning, the strong battery is not being weakened/drained by the weak/drained battery through the Guest switch. What I'm experiencing, is all I would expect from any battery-switch-system...
Is what I describe here; what we experience on our boat, not the norm? If not, why do the Perko Guest battery switches even have a #1 and #2 setting? If not to create the situation I have, there would be no use to have a #1 and #2 setting. It seems from what I've been reading, that other people with Perko or Guest battery switches are not experiencing what I do, and from your post, what you are experiencing....
Andy - I think we have the same setup from what you described. You must have the isolator aux too. You (and I) have simply two batteries on board in a one battery system. There is nothing wrong with this, if it is wired correctly. Think of the other battery just as the back up. There is no reason to switch or alternate from #1 to #2 on the way out and in, or use #1 battery on odd days and #2 on even days. That is pure nonsense. Also, the battery switch should never be put in the combined positioned, only as an absolute last resort, ie. if either either battery doesn't start the engine. I will post some pictures and maybe a youtube video this weekend.
 

baker

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Because You do NOT have a dedicated House battery.

What ever position the Perko is in......That battery is powering Engine and House loads.

Have you ever had your electronic's ON....Engine Off......And then Start the engine and the electronic's spike and shut down?

That setup will do that. A BEP will NOT. Because the Relay on the BEP Opens when it seances that Mad rush of current to the Starter motor.....and the electronic's keep getting clean power from the dedicated House battery.
I'm no expert in electrical or electronics, but If the the electronics spike and/or shut off when you start the motor, the boat is just not wired correctly. I believe it mostly has to do with the grounds and/or the negatives.

Anyway, the BEP clusters are a great system and work well. However, in my boats setup with the aux charging in place, I don't find the necessity yet to change it. Currently I was exploring the possibility of motorized battery switches and install a battery control center near the helm. The reason is so that I don't have to open the aft deck hatch, get down on my already achy knees and belly, reach in the hole blindly (because the aft bench seat covers it) to make battery switches. If I didn't have the aux, I would install the BEP cluster with the VSR immediately. I had one on a previous boat. If I install a TM, I may look into having the aux system wired to the TM battery bank and then switch over to a start/house battery setup.
 

baker

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Thank you Warthog; I'm 'starting' to get a better understanding... (old dog, new tricks thing?)
I bow to your knowledge and I'm sure the BEP system is the best of the new technology; I'm just trying understand more about why the Guest/Perko's have worked for me, for decades without a hitch. And seems to be doing what it needs to do on the present boat.
1) When the Guest switch is on #1 or #2, and with the engine, you mentioned 'battery is powering the Engine and House loads'; I'm guessing you mean, the battery is powering those, via the alternator; of course the load are 'attached' to the batteries, but with the engine running, both batteries are being kept charged from the engine alternator. (It does not matter if I'm on #1 or #2; both are receiving charge).
2) I have never started an engine with any of electronics powered 'on'. I never have, and never will. It is something I've been taught since the late 1970's. 'don't spike the electronics'.
3) When I stop the engine, just as in 'start-up', I don't stop the engine, until after I power-down all electronics. All electric loads 'off'; then I turn the engines off.
4) When the engine is off, and I'm using either battery #1 or #2 as a 'house' battery, the one I am not using does not drain down; it is held in 'reserve' to re-start' the engine. The 'house' battery will lose voltage/power. I have never not had/saved at least one (last boat, had 6 batteries) battery 'in reserve' to re-start the engine.
5) Is it possible our Parker has some of the 'new-fangled' electronic devices like 'isolators' and such that compensate for the lack of BEP technology, like Baker mentioned above. (Yamaha isolator aux system)...? I posted a photo here of some devices mounted near our batteries. They are not labeled so I don't know what they are.
Andy - with older electronics and the way boats were (or even some today) wired, today you shouldn't need to power off the electronics before starting or stoping the engine. What happens when you use your windlas? Do the electronics flicker or shut off?
 

Andy

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Andy - I think we have the same setup from what you described. You must have the isolator aux too. You (and I) have simply two batteries on board in a one battery system. There is nothing wrong with this, if it is wired correctly. Think of the other battery just as the back up. There is no reason to switch or alternate from #1 to #2 on the way out and in, or use #1 battery on odd days and #2 on even days. That is pure nonsense. Also, the battery switch should never be put in the combined positioned, only as an absolute last resort, ie. if either either battery doesn't start the engine. I will post some pictures and maybe a youtube video this weekend.
Thank you! (if you do the video, please link it so we can see it... Or, am I already 'subscribed' to your Youtube channel?
Yes, mine (like yours) is a simple two-battery system and it has worked well. I have never used this switch in 'both'; never needed to 'combine' to start the engine. In fact with this Parker, the only time I did so (embarrassingly!) was when I posted a video on Youtube about this very subject. I was just switching from #1 to #2 and momentarily paused it on 'both'.; the camera caught that!
My only goal with all of this is that both batteries stay charged (and they do), and that when I use either of them for the 'house' battery, only one discharges, and leaves the other in reserve.....

One thing I'd like to add; What we are describing here may not work on older boats. It has been working fine on our 2013 Parker with a 2014 Yamaha 300. I don't know what year Parker started using the 'isolator aux'. So I don't think that all older boats can do as we have talked about. On our previous three boats, we HAD to run the boats with the battery switches on 'BOTH' for both batteries to receive charge. Some older Parkers may have to do the same. Our 1986 35' CT Sundeck trawler had six 4D batteries, and three Guest switches (The same Guest switches as the Parker). That Diesel engine also had a high capacity alternator (I believe 170 Amp? ). Our 1984 Albin trawler before that had two Group 27 (if they were called that back then?) The battery selector switch had to be on 'Both' for both batteries to receive charge. Our 1979, 22' boat before that; same thing. Two batteries, and the switch had to be on 'Both' for both batteries to receive a charge from the engine. Even with those I always 'saved' one battery on reserve to start the engine.
 

Andy

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Andy - with older electronics and the way boats were (or even some today) wired, today you shouldn't need to power off the electronics before starting or stoping the engine. What happens when you use your windlas? Do the electronics flicker or shut off?
Thank you once again! I'm sure you are correct about my old habit with the power off/on of electronics. And it is just that; an old habit! ☺. It's something we were taught by Capt. Bill Brogden (the US Coast Guard captain who was responsible for developing the LORAN system). He taught that in some classes/programs as a means to prevent the possibility of 'spiking' the electronics. It may have been helpful way back then. I was not in USCG, I just attended his classes, and have his books, via the US Power Squadrons. It's an just old habit on my part....
The electronics are not at all affected by the windlass; no blinks; no voltage; no flickers. I only use the windlass when the engine is running. I have not used it from battery power alone.
 
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Kevin

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I'm no expert in electrical or electronics, but If the the electronics spike and/or shut off when you start the motor, the boat is just not wired correctly. I believe it mostly has to do with the grounds and/or the negatives.

Anyway, the BEP clusters are a great system and work well. However, in my boats setup with the aux charging in place, I don't find the necessity yet to change it. Currently I was exploring the possibility of motorized battery switches and install a battery control center near the helm. The reason is so that I don't have to open the aft deck hatch, get down on my already achy knees and belly, reach in the hole blindly (because the aft bench seat covers it) to make battery switches. If I didn't have the aux, I would install the BEP cluster with the VSR immediately. I had one on a previous boat. If I install a TM, I may look into having the aux system wired to the TM battery bank and then switch over to a start/house battery setup.
Hi I also had problems with the battery switch in the bilge and have a rear seat on my 25se. I moved the switch to the glove compartment on the center console and the batteries to the center console no more lying down on the deck to turn the battery off and moving the batteries helped the ride also
 

pelagic2530

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Andy - I think we have the same setup from what you described. You must have the isolator aux too. You (and I) have simply two batteries on board in a one battery system. There is nothing wrong with this, if it is wired correctly. Think of the other battery just as the back up. There is no reason to switch or alternate from #1 to #2 on the way out and in, or use #1 battery on odd days and #2 on even days. That is pure nonsense. Also, the battery switch should never be put in the combined positioned, only as an absolute last resort, ie. if either either battery doesn't start the engine. I will post some pictures and maybe a youtube video this weekend.
It is advisable to switch between positions #1 and #2 periodically. This is to keep the usage on the batteries roughly equal. Batteries are a electrochemical system and degrade with use. Since the system as you describe it has one battery (either #1 or #2) both cranking the motor and powering the electronics, if you're always using either #1 or #2, that battery is going to see all of the electrical load on the boat and therefore will degrade faster. While the other battery will never see any load at all.
 

pelagic2530

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I'm no expert in electrical or electronics, but If the the electronics spike and/or shut off when you start the motor, the boat is just not wired correctly. I believe it mostly has to do with the grounds and/or the negatives.

Anyway, the BEP clusters are a great system and work well. However, in my boats setup with the aux charging in place, I don't find the necessity yet to change it. Currently I was exploring the possibility of motorized battery switches and install a battery control center near the helm. The reason is so that I don't have to open the aft deck hatch, get down on my already achy knees and belly, reach in the hole blindly (because the aft bench seat covers it) to make battery switches. If I didn't have the aux, I would install the BEP cluster with the VSR immediately. I had one on a previous boat. If I install a TM, I may look into having the aux system wired to the TM battery bank and then switch over to a start/house battery setup.
The reason that the electronics "spike" or shut off when powered by the same battery as the motor is due to the variance in voltage. When the battery cranks the motor, a large amperage is drawn out of the battery, which depending on the size and the health of the battery may cause a momentary voltage drop. Electronics are very sensitive to voltage and want clean, steady power. If the voltage drop is pronounced enough, any electronics that are running may shut down. Similarly, once the engine starts and the alternator starts to provide power, the electronics may see a quick "spike" from the low voltage during starting to the high voltage being put out by the alternator. Neither of these are good for the electronics, and may over time (or quickly) damage them. In any event performance will not be ideal. Modern sophisticated electronics are just as, if not more voltage sensitive than legacy units.

Of note, this spiking occurs not only when initially starting the motors for the day, but also if you shut down and restart the motors to reposition during the day, move to a new spot, or charge that battery because it's getting low. Unless you're never stopping your motor, or are shutting down all your electronics prior to starting the motor each time, you're taking a toll on your units.

With the BEP switch, the battery that is powering the electronics is an entirely separate unit from the battery cranking the motor. Therefore, the electronics are completely isolated from the voltage drop/spike from the cranking motor. They get the nice clean stable power they like from a battery with a near-constant amperage draw (compared to instantaneous heavy draw from cranking) and a steady charging current once the start battery is topped off.

Regardless of whether or not your batteries are being kept charged individually by the main/aux charging units, the separation of cranking and house batteries allowed by the BEP switch is worth the installation. Also of note: the output of the alternator is fixed. The aux charging system does not give you MORE charging capacity, it simply splits the charging amperage into two separate streams. A BEP switch in a typical installation provides a better charge to the batteries than the aux charging system; for that reason, there is a case to be made for disengaging the aux cable and running the charging current to the vessel's batteries solely through the BEP switch.
 

Andy

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It is advisable to switch between positions #1 and #2 periodically. This is to keep the usage on the batteries roughly equal. Batteries are a electrochemical system and degrade with use. Since the system as you describe it has one battery (either #1 or #2) both cranking the motor and powering the electronics, if you're always using either #1 or #2, that battery is going to see all of the electrical load on the boat and therefore will degrade faster. While the other battery will never see any load at all.
Hi pelagic, I totally agree, and I do as you suggested. On my last boat I got 9+ years out of the 4-D's (had it for 28 years); and replaced the batteries only twice in those 28 years; wet-cells; easy to maintain and easy to check the specific-gravity). On our Parker I just replaced the batteries last year (unnecessarily). I was going through other issues that Warthog helped me diagnose, and I first replaced the batteries as someone else suggested; the batteries I replaced were still good; very good.
 

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