Windless Wiring - Wart Help!

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shawnee83

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I’m hoping Wart reads this but anyone else who can explain would obviously be great. Anyway, last weekend I helped a friend instal a BEP Cluster on his 23 Persuit Walk Around. He’s running a 300 Suzuki. First, the engine rigging comes in on the starboard side then goes to a couple of terminal blocks mounted on the starboard side stringers. Next to those, there is a bus that about half + of the hots to the dash/front of the boat run to. From the terminal blocks, another 2 AWG neg. extends to the start ground and the pos extends to the engine “In” on the BEP which are both over on the port side. Next to the BEP switch there is a small fuse box with push breakers that controls the front and rear bilge pumps, the running lights and a cabin light but that’s about it. I have that fuse box wired to the house “Out” on the BEP and it actually runs through a resettable breaker first. That part is good but all of the Nav, radio, stereo, spreader etc.. doesn’t work unless the start switch is on due to it being tied to those terminal blocks & bus at the starboard stringers where the engine harness comes in. My suggestion/plan for my friend is to purchase 2 new bat cable extensions, neg. & pos and one new terminal block (both to fix the current issue and because they are long runs and are going to upgrade the extensions to 2/0 awg). We will just run a new heavier Neg to the start bat ground from the existing neg terminal block and instal a new pos terminal block next to the existing one and move the hot from the engine to that and the new 2/0 awg pos extension back up to the engine “In” at the BEP. The original pos coming off the original pos terminal block that has all the dash and windless etc going to that bus attached I will now move that over to the house “out” on the BEP. This should isolate the engine start to just the engine and get everything else on the house side. The one thing I’m not sure where to put is the windless wire which is currently on the existing pos terminal block so it’s basically wired to start bat now. When I put the new engine dedicated pos terminal block in should I add just the windless hot to it or leave it where it is and when I move that line over to the house out it will just run off of that? Sorry this is so long but I’ve tried to explain it the best I can. By the way, the previous owner installed a nice stereo system and there is also dedicated hot heavy guage down there going to the bats. I wanted to move that over to the house terminal block as well. System has a sub. Both bats are brand new and 1000 CCA. My friend doesn’t use the stereo much which is good as he really needs a bigger house bat with that thing. Thanks in advance with thoughts on this and pointing out any errors I’m making.
 
Damn! My mind got scrambeled..... LOL.

I have a '24 Century here now that is something like you describe.


But back on task.

In my Parker...and I'd do this on other boats as well. Install another ON/OFF switch...a single one....The size of the BEP ON/Off switches. Windless gets wired direct to the Start Battery. There is a Breaker and ON/Off switch.

The theory is.... That windless is not used to pull the boat around.....The engine moves the boat.....The windless retrives the anchor rode.

So the engine is running.....That in turn is supplying over 12V more like 14V to the windless.

Now There is the cheap windless model and there is the more expensive with the relay. I only use the one with the relay.

Oh and while your doing this .....Get the remote control.....He will Love it. :)


So to operate the windless you have another ON/OFF switch to turn ON at the beginning of the day.....I have 4ga cable to mine so there is the least amount of voltage drop.

Hope that helps?
 
Thanks Wart. That’s what I needed to confirm. The windless is already on the boat. Not new at all. It does have the usual in line resettable breaker already but not a dedicated on off switch. Lots of things on the wiring I don’t like but I at least want to get him basic correct function. He had been having problems with his Suzuki having low voltage alarms as they seem to be sensitive with fly by wire. Also related to his old battery and to many people making a mess of how they hooked stuff up over the years. Thanks for your input as always.
 
I'm getting ready to install a Lewmar Profish 700 (with relay) and wondering the same thing. Your comment about using the starting battery makes a lot of sense. That being said, would you still do it that way under the following circumstances?

Two house batteries - one in port side transom (H1), the other (H2) under the port side galley/cabinet (this is an extended cabin).

H1 has the original factory power run to the Parker circuit panel (P1) and runs all the original electrical (spreaders, cockpit lights, Nav lights, interior lights, etc).

H2 has a dedicated fuse panel (P2) to provide power to electronics, radios, stereo system. It has a run back to the alternator output for charging, with a BEP on/off switch to separate it while not in use.

On-board battery charger supplies all three batteries with a constant charge while on shore power.

I was thinking about relocating H2 forward into the bench under the berth and then connecting P2 to H1, which would leave H2 as a dedicated windlass battery. A lot of work, but it would move some weight forward (a good thing), cut the length of the power run by about 2/3's, and provide a dedicated source of power to the windlass that would not affect the other batteries that are crucial for operation of the boat.

Thoughts?
 
Sounds to me your trying to over complicate it. :) I defer to my original plan. Start Battery with a ON/OFF master switch to kill power to the windless and the 50amp Breaker real close to the ON/Off sw. and the battery.
 
warthog5":173rlujk said:
Sounds to me your trying to over complicate it. :) I defer to my original plan. Start Battery with a ON/OFF master switch to kill power to the windless and the 50amp Breaker real close to the ON/Off sw. and the battery.

You've convinced me. Occam's Razor even works for boat repairs! :)
 
Sounds to me your trying to over complicate it. :) I defer to my original plan. Start Battery with a ON/OFF master switch to kill power to the windless and the 50amp Breaker real close to the ON/Off sw. and the battery.
Hey Wart,

Sorry to dig up an old thread. Regarding the wiring above, is there any reason to use the independent On/Off switch as opposed to having the windlass wiring start at the start battery output terminal of the BEP switch?

Currently, I've got a Good windlass with a 60A push button breaker located on the dash. Wiring looks like this: 6AWG cable running from the start battery (no switch) direct to the breaker in the dash, 6AWG cable running from the breaker up to the relays mounted in the anchor locker compartment. I'd like to remove the 60A breaker from the dash and put it back close to the battery to minimize the length of unprotected cable. My thought was to have it connected to the output terminal on one of the start battery switches, followed closely by a resettable breaker.

Also, the website shows a power draw of 40A for the windlass; with a ~30' run of cable to and from the transom (~60' total), BlueSea Circuit Wizard is calling for 1AWG wiring. I've never had an issue with the installation as is, but it sure sounds like the wiring is severely undersized. What am I missing here?
 
I wire a windless....Just like a Trolling Motor with a Breaker and it's own ON/OFF Master....Not hooked to the BEP. But pick up Power from the Start Battery....Not the House Batt. [TM has it's own battery / Batteries]

A couple of things here in my thinking.....The windless can be left OFF at the Master and no fear of a accidental deploy. Hooked to the Start Battery.......When deploying the engine is running to maneuver..... The voltage is higher to run the windless better. 14V. With all that said......Doing what you said and connecting to the BEP Start switch is fine.....BUT I bet you will not have the room when it's all actually mounted on the Start switch stud.
 
Hey Wart,

Sorry to dig up an old thread. Regarding the wiring above, is there any reason to use the independent On/Off switch as opposed to having the windlass wiring start at the start battery output terminal of the BEP switch?

Currently, I've got a Good windlass with a 60A push button breaker located on the dash. Wiring looks like this: 6AWG cable running from the start battery (no switch) direct to the breaker in the dash, 6AWG cable running from the breaker up to the relays mounted in the anchor locker compartment. I'd like to remove the 60A breaker from the dash and put it back close to the battery to minimize the length of unprotected cable. My thought was to have it connected to the output terminal on one of the start battery switches, followed closely by a resettable breaker.

Also, the website shows a power draw of 40A for the windlass; with a ~30' run of cable to and from the transom (~60' total), BlueSea Circuit Wizard is calling for 1AWG wiring. I've never had an issue with the installation as is, but it sure sounds like the wiring is severely undersized. What am I missing here?
I have a terminal fuse mounted on my start battery for the windlass cable - to protect the long run of battery cable to the in dash breaker ( your 60a push button breaker ). Wart, is this an acceptable way to protect that cable?
 

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Yes..... I don't use that style myself. I use a surface mount Breaker within close proximity to the battery.
 
I wire a windless....Just like a Trolling Motor with a Breaker and it's own ON/OFF Master....Not hooked to the BEP. But pick up Power from the Start Battery....Not the House Batt. [TM has it's own battery / Batteries]

A couple of things here in my thinking.....The windless can be left OFF at the Master and no fear of a accidental deploy. Hooked to the Start Battery.......When deploying the engine is running to maneuver..... The voltage is higher to run the windless better. 14V. With all that said......Doing what you said and connecting to the BEP Start switch is fine.....BUT I bet you will not have the room when it's all actually mounted on the Start switch stud.

Makes sense. I'll see how it all mocks up; not that big a deal to change to a separate switch if needed. I've got one lying around somewhere.

Any thoughts on the wiring size? Really seems like it would be excess to run 1AWG cables all the way to the bow. The windlass manufacturer (Good) is less than helpful with electrical information on their product. 40A for a windlass seems like a hell of a lot of juice.
 
40A for a windlass seems like a hell of a lot of juice.

It's not.

That Circuit with 10% Voltage drop = 6ga.
" " " 8% " " = 4ga
" " " 5% " " = 2ga.
" " " 3% " " = 1/0ga
 
It's not.

That Circuit with 10% Voltage drop = 6ga.
" " " 8% " " = 4ga
" " " 5% " " = 2ga.
" " " 3% " " = 1/0ga

After I asked the question, I did a little more digging around on my own. Discovered exactly what you just pointed out, felt pretty ridiculous. I'm going with 4ga, figuring the voltage drop at 8% with the engine alternator putting out ~14v still gives me over 12v at the windlass. It doesn't get used a lot, but I've never had an issue with the (very crappy automotive) 6ga wire that's in place, so I think I'll go up a size for good measure and call it a day. It'll be better than what I had.
 
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