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 Post subject: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 9:56 pm 
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Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
By Charles Fort
Published: October/November 2012

Owners of some Yamaha outboards are incensed at having to pay thousands to repair their relatively low-hour engines.

Recently, the BoatUS Consumer Protection Bureau has been made aware of dozens of reports regarding serious corrosion problems in Yamaha outboards, specifically 2000 to 2004, first-generation F225 models. Over time the issue usually surfaces after 500 to 700 hours of use the engine's exhaust gases appear to corrode the exhaust tube and sometimes the engine's oil pan, which is in the same area. Reinier Van Der Herp, a New Jersey marine surveyor, told BoatUS, "I've seen the damage to six engines myself, and know of at least a dozen others in the New Jersey area." The failure, he reports, isn't outwardly visible, but the engine may lose power and begin to smoke. In some cases, he says, the oil dipstick can be blown out of the engine from the exhaust-gas pressure.
see
http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2012/oct ... laints.asp

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:38 am 
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This problem is well documented on various discussion boards. The issue was brought to my attention when I was in the market for a boat last year. It was hard to stay away from all the cheap deals with F225. The market is flooded with them.

Yamaha should pay for the repair kit or do a recall.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 12:02 pm 
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I am sending our story to BoatUS.

After discussing our issues with our mechanic and they discussed it with Yamaha in GA, the dealer was again disappointed with their support but San Carlos in Ft Meyers gave us discounts on the parts and labor. The owner said they had to deal with issues and boat owners alone. Yamaha made their decision and that was final.

When I contact BoatUS, I will ask them to contact the Yamaha dealers for their 2cw. I expect they are very disappointed, too

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:39 pm 
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Brent wrote:
I am sending our story to BoatUS ...

Get in line ... but GET in line if your motor is affected or suspected ...

Link = http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2012/oct ... laints.asp

Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
By Charles Fort Published: October/November 2012

Owners of some Yamaha outboards are incensed at having to pay thousands to repair their relatively low-hour engines.

Recently, the BoatUS Consumer Protection Bureau has been made aware of dozens of reports regarding serious corrosion problems in Yamaha outboards, specifically 2000 to 2004, first-generation F225 models. Over time the issue usually surfaces after 500 to 700 hours of use the engine's exhaust gases appear to corrode the exhaust tube and sometimes the engine's oil pan, which is in the same area. Reinier Van Der Herp, a New Jersey marine surveyor, told BoatUS, "I've seen the damage to six engines myself, and know of at least a dozen others in the New Jersey area." The failure, he reports, isn't outwardly visible, but the engine may lose power and begin to smoke. In some cases, he says, the oil dipstick can be blown out of the engine from the exhaust-gas pressure.

Members have reported that some first-generation F225 engines from 2000 to 2004 are showing unusal exhaust problems.

To date, six BoatUS members have reported to us that they've experienced this problem, and we've received similar reports from three other marine surveyors, on both coasts, who have examined this problem firsthand on other boats. In addition, Internet chat rooms and forums describe the experiences of many other owners who have similar problems with their Yamaha F225s; one owner, who reported that both his engines failed after only 450 hours, compared the problem to "a youngster needing a hip replacement." The repair is expensive. A kit with the necessary parts is about $650, but the biggest hit to the wallet is labor, which can top $2,500. In some cases, the power head may have to be replaced, which can cost $10,000 (the F225 retails for more than $17,000), or twice that for owners whose boats have two engines.

For its part, Yamaha duly repaired engines that failed during the warranty period. But because most recreational boat owners use their outboard engines less than 100 hours per year, a three-year warranty means that many engines begin failing a year or two after the warranty expires. According to Yamaha, no service bulletins were issued about this corrosion problem, though it appears the company has created a parts kit specifically to address fixing it.

A Case In Point

BoatUS member Steve Oetegenn from San Diego, California, was about to close the sale of his 2004 29-foot Seaswirl with twin 2003 Yamaha 225s, but during the final sea trial, the starboard engine began to smoke and the buyer walked. Oetegenn took the boat to his mechanic and was stunned when told the dry-exhaust corrosion was so severe that the power heads would have to be replaced at a cost of more than $20,000 for both.

The engines had been serviced every year exactly as Yamaha suggested, and in fact had just been serviced a week before at a cost of $2,000. His engines had only 500 hours of use. The frustrating part, says Oetegenn, is that if Yamaha had previously informed the technician of the potential problem, the engines could have been inspected for corrosion during a prior annual maintenance (while still under warranty) and perhaps been repaired, rather than ruined. The worst part? Oetegenn had purchased an extended warranty for both engines, and it had expired only months before the engine failed. Oetegenn wrote two letters to Yamaha to request assistance, and received a letter that said, because his engine was out of warranty, the company was unable to help. He now will have to spend thousands of dollars in repairs, just so he can sell his boat.


Photo (see attached below!): Freddie Merhelo - The exhaust section (right) shows severe corrosion compared to the new one (left).

Other owners who followed Yamaha's maintenance procedures are also angry. In some cases, their dealers first tried to fault the owners by telling them that the corrosion stemmed from the owner's failure to flush the engine after every use. But according to Paul Logue, a marine surveyor in Scituate, Massachusetts, who's inspected three ruined Yamaha F225 engines, that argument evaporates because the corrosion happens internally where no cooling water is present. "Flushing would have no effect," he says. "In my opinion, there's nothing an owner could've done to prevent serious corrosion from eventually eating through the exhaust system."

Is Ethanol To Blame? Probably Not

Many of the affected engines became damaged shortly after E10 was introduced. Mark Bell, a metallurgical engineer in Sacramento, California, says it's unlikely that ethanol is the culprit because it typically burns even cleaner than gasoline. The design of a dry exhaust, he says, should take into account the hot exhaust gases from burned gasoline and its potential to corrode the metal. A coating to withstand the gases is basic and not expensive or high tech, he adds. Indeed, the new replacement kit from Yamaha has parts with a different coating that seems to be effective. Another reason ethanol likely isn't to blame is that other Yamaha products don't appear to be suffering the same corrosion issues.

Yamaha Responds

BoatUS contacted Yamaha by phone and letter to discuss this problem. In a response letter to BoatUS, the company sidestepped the corrosion issue and wrote, "The outboards you mention have been out of warranty for quite some time. We would like to remind our customers that the best way to prevent the issues encountered is to flush the motor after every use with plenty of fresh water." Despite repeated requests from BoatUS, Yamaha would not provide further clarification about how flushing the engine would prevent corrosion of the dry exhaust parts.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:04 pm 
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Yamaha's reply shows a complete lack of understanding of the issue
Flushing will not prevent corrosion in the dry exhaust.

I hope BoatUS posts a followup article

I sent them our experience and pics

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1994 Parker 2320 Extended Cabin
2002 Yamaha F225 TXRA 4 stroke


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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2012 3:57 pm 
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Quote:
The owner said they had to deal with issues and boat owners alone. Yamaha made their decision and that was final.



And the story goes...... Failure to read your history and learn from it, has you doomed to be repeated again.

So what am I talking about?

2004- 2005 Yamaha 250 & 300 HDPI's and Yamaha's attitude to take care of people that had $150,000 boats and could not get out of the bay due to fouled plugs. Then it turned into a special team that came around and spent 14 or 16hrs per motor to fix the problem. Mean while the bank wanted their money for a POS that you could not use.

The Hull Truth was full of this info back then.

So now they have this problem. Hmmmmmmmm! Talk to Yamaha with your wallet!

Love my Suzzy's. :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 2:54 pm 
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My 2320 is my last boat.........it may end up with a black motor one day due to this complete BS. Using non-marinized components on a marine engine and then telling us it is our fault when those parts don't hold up.........pathetic. FWIW my F250 manufactured 10/05 that hangs on my 2006 hull was checked at 500 hrs and is symptom free.

As individuals I am not sure how much of an impact we can make on Yamaha but if boat manufacturers like Parker and others threaten to drop Yamaha if they don't square up with their customers then that kind of pressure could draw a quicker remedy to the problem.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 12:30 am 
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I got "lucky" and it only cost me ~$2k to fix mine.


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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:18 am 
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Yikes!
I cant believe Yamaha hasn't made right by this yet. Very disappointing

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:59 am 
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big tuna wrote:
I got "lucky" and it only cost me ~$2k to fix mine.


What did you get for that price and who did the work??

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:16 am 
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:49 pm 
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I like my 02 Yamaha 225 four stroke. It has been repaired and I moved on with my life.

Yamaha is not first company to ignore known issues. We had a new 78 Chev Malibu with a V8 and transmission went out at 18K miles. Transmission was not a turbo hydramatic 350 but one made for 4 cyclinder Chevette, There was a class action against Chevrolet which we joined after discussing the issue with Chevrolet field and district staff and offices, and they declined the claim. Then we contacted the BBB for info on the lawsuit. We received a check for $700 in a few months. I could not find any class action suit against Yamaha so we paid over $3200 after discounts. We dont have a trailer so padi $250 for delivery fees. The owner of San Carlos Marine, Ft Meyers, FL had seen this issues on other customer's boats with Yamaha outboards and gave us 20% off parts and 10% parts. To the Admiral and I, that was worth a million bucks. He said will be like new when his master tech mechanic completed the repairs and the new parts are better than old. They were right. It runs well and so quiet. It does not use 2 cycle oil and easy to service thanks to SIM Yamaha pictorial guides. Sometimes when it idling I cant hear it (maybe age related reasons too O:)))

I just find it interesting that Boat US wrote the article recently instead years earlier.

If this outboard nees to be replaced, I will be looking at Yamaha and other brands

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:01 pm 
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Location: Salem, OR
Bryan 2530 wrote:
big tuna wrote:
I got "lucky" and it only cost me ~$2k to fix mine.


What did you get for that price and who did the work??

You just made me dig up the receipt.
Parts: Muffler gasket, Upper Gasket Casing, Plate, Exhaust Manifold, Exhaust Manifold Gasket, Muffler 1, Oil Pan Gasket, Cylinder Gasket, Exhaust Seal 1, Exhaust Manifold Gasket, 10W30 Marine oil (7)...$768

Remove Power Head, disassemble mid section to replace corroded parts, reassemble engine...$440. I removed the lower unit before bringing in for repair.

Bloody Decks parts discount ($153).

Total was $1,1055.31. I told you I was "lucky".

Work was done by West Coast Marine Service in Costa Mesa, CA


Last edited by big tuna on Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 9:41 am 
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Update 1/10/2013

BoatU.S. has had two meetings with representatives from Yamaha regarding the
dry exhaust corrosion issue. We presented them with copies of your
complaints, photographs, professional opinions, and other documentation. For
their part, Yamaha gave a presentation about corrosion and flushing, along
with some information about how the new parts have been changed. It¹s not
clear yet what the exact cause of the corrosion is, and Yamaha is not
admitting to any defects, but we believe Yamaha now understands the scope of
the problem and recognizes the need to formulate a solution. We believe
Yamaha will agree to revisit each complaint sent to BoatU.S. Our hope is
that they will offer some type of assistance, hopefully a contribution to
help offset the costs of repairs. However, these will be done on a
case-by-case basis and the amount of contribution, if any, is unknown. We
won¹t know until the program begins.

We hope to hear Yamaha¹s plan sometime this month and will keep you
apprised. Consumer Protection would like to stay involved through the
process so we can monitor Yamaha¹s program, but that will be up to you. If
you do not wish to have us give Yamaha your information and would prefer to
do it yourself, please let us know.

Thank you for providing the information you sent us. The number of
responses, the tone of letters to Yamaha, and the costs involved to repair
damaged engines were instrumental in getting Yamaha¹s attention.

Sincerely,

Charles Fort
BoatU.S.
Director, Consumer Protection Bureau
(703) 461-2878 ext. 3033
880 S. Pickett St.
Alexandria, Va. 22304

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1994 Parker 2320 Extended Cabin
2002 Yamaha F225 TXRA 4 stroke


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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:37 am 
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They owe these people something!

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:56 am 
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I am a BoatUS member

I will be happy with a case of the new formulation of Ring Free and a hat

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1994 Parker 2320 Extended Cabin
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:27 am 
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Charles sent the following reply today 3//18/2013

As you know, we have been negotiating with Yamaha on a program to address
dry exhaust corrosion on the company¹s F220/F225/F250 engines. After several
meetings, we are pleased to announce that Yamaha has agreed to a plan to
review and address our members¹ complaints.

Yamaha has proposed proceeding as follows:
· Contact each member

· Determine the basic information about the motor(s), PID, etc.

· Obtain any service records or repair orders

· Evaluate other circumstances

· Make a determination on a case-by-case basis of the level of
assistance.


Our next step is to provide Yamaha with your contact information so that
they can begin the program. They should begin contacting our members within
the next few weeks, though the volume of complaints means that it will take
some time to get to everyone.

We have talked to most of you and know you understand that most of these
engines are several years out of warranty and eight to 12 years old. Yamaha
was not legally obligated to provide assistance, but the program calls for
them to offer compensation ranging from credits for goods and services to
payment for parts depending on the specific circumstances. We believe that
Yamaha is making a good faith effort to address the dry exhaust corrosion
issue in order to maintain their quality reputation and demonstrate their
commitment to owners.

While non-BoatU.S. members can participate, we will be unable to do more
than provide contact information to Yamaha. BoatU.S. members will still have
BoatU.S. Consumer Protection behind them. If you are not a member and would
like to join, you can do so here at a savings of $6 off the normal price:

https://www.boatus.com/MembershipWeb_Ma ... sonal.aspx



Charles Fort
BoatU.S.
Director, Consumer Protection
Consumer Editor, BoatU.S. Magazine
Associate Editor, Seaworthy magazine
(703) 461-2878 ext. 3033
880 S. Pickett St.
Alexandria, Va. 22304

With more than 500,000 members, BoatU.S. is the nation's leading advocate
for recreational boaters. Join us at www.boatus.com.

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1994 Parker 2320 Extended Cabin
2002 Yamaha F225 TXRA 4 stroke


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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 12:56 pm 
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Anybody know for sure what the total number in service is and how many have actually failed? :?: I"ve got 850 on mine, it was in a Yamaha dealer for a major go around at 750 and nothing was said or I have no evidence of this on mine....

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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 1:02 pm 
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I dont but ask Charles at
Charles Fort <CFort@BOATUS.com>

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1994 Parker 2320 Extended Cabin
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 3:39 pm 
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Posts: 160
Location: Newburyport, MA
Hey Guys

Just piling on. Had mine done this year (1275 hours) and it definitely needed it.....wouldn't have lasted 50 hours. There were holes in the exhaust tube, severe pitting on all the metal, cooling channel edges in the oil pan were deteriorated to the point where water would have started leaking internally.....

Also this motor (2003 F225) had no over heat codes, and was running fine....

I have pictures, but haven't figured out how to attach them yet.


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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 4:14 pm 
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> From: "Yamaha Outboard Parts Forum" <web.master@yamahaoutboardparts.com>
> Date: July 29, 2013, 1:09:
> Subject: Reply to thread 'Corrosion Controversy w Yamaha F225's?',
>
> have subscribed to entitled - Corrosion Controversy w Yamaha F225's? - in the Yamaha Outboard Forum forum of Yamaha Outboard Parts Forum.
>
> This thread is located at:
> http://www.yamahaoutboardparts.com/foru ... -post.html
>
> Here is the message that has just been posted:
> ***************
> Hi, My name is Ellen Obletz. I am a consumer protection litigation assistant at the law firm Girard Gibbs LLP. We are investigating consumer complaints that first generation Yamaha outboard motors rapidly corrode within 500 to 700 hours of use, and necessitate costly repairs or replacement. If you are interested in assisting our investigation or sharing your experience with us, please email emo@girardgibbs.com, call 866-981-4800, or visit our website at Yamaha Outboard Motor Corrosion Buildup & Repairs | Lawsuit Investigation of Yamaha First Generation Outboard Motors (http://www.girardgibbs.com/yamaha-outboard-corrosion/).
> ***************

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1994 Parker 2320 Extended Cabin
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Mon Jul 29, 2013 11:13 pm 
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Reich & Binstock Attorneys Represent Plaintiffs in Yamaha Class Action Lawsuit
The Houston-based law firm of Reich & Binstock represents the plaintiff in the first class action lawsuit to be filed in California against Yamaha in regard to alleged defects in an outboard recreational boat motor. Meanwhile, attorneys will investigate the circumstances of more purchasers of the allegedly flawed motor to determine whether they may be entitled to compensation.

Seattle resident George Williams paid more than $3,000 to repair the damage allegedly caused by a buildup of corrosion on the internal components of his Yamaha First Generation Four Stroke Outboard motor. As Yamaha allegedly has refused to recall, repair or replace free of charge the defective product, Williams, represented by the Houston-based law firm of Reich & Binstock, filed a class action lawsuit July 15 in U.S. District Court for the Central District of California (Case No. 2:2013cv05066).

Reich & Binstock’s attorneys will investigate the circumstances of other First Generation Four Stroke Outboard purchasers who come forward with repair or replacement bills attributable to the concealed corrosion. They too may be entitled to compensation. If the court certifies the class, it would include U.S. residents “who purchased one or more Yamaha 2000 to 2004 model year First Generation Four Stroke Outboard motors,” according to the complaint.

On behalf of Williams, attorneys for Reich & Binstock, namely Debra Brewer Hayes and Charles C. Hunter, assert in the complaint that “Plaintiff and the Class members are entitled to equitable and injunctive relief against Defendants, including recall and replacement, restitution and/or other relief as appropriate.”

Hayes and Hunter cite in the complaint two key dilemmas with which Williams and the rest of the class were beset, both of which would be redressed by Yamaha’s recall, free replacement, rescission or restitution.

First, the damage is allegedly concealed until it is too late. As the petition reads, “the hidden buildup of corrosion would not be discovered, even by trained mechanics performing annual service checks, until the engines actually begin to evidence symptoms such as leaking oil, giving the mechanic a reason to open up the engine and expose the corrosion.”

Hence, signs of damage tend to crop up after the expiration of Yamaha’s three-year warranty, which “covers the costs of parts and labor for major components.”

Second, the cost can be stratospheric. The complaint avers these allegations: “[O]nce the corrosion problems were detected, some consumers have incurred the premature expense of purchasing a new outboard engine, rather than paying the prohibitive cost of repairs. (In some cases, owners reported being faced with repair estimates totaling 50 percent of the cost of simply abandoning the defective outboard and purchasing a new engine from the dealer.) One owner reported in an online post that, faced with severe corrosion to both his twin First Generation Four Stroke Outboards, he spent $34,000 to replace the engines with new ones, discarding the old engines after only 500 hours of use.”

Williams purchased a boat equipped with the allegedly defective outboard in 2003. His warranty expired in 2006. In 2011, after Williams had used the boat for about 688 hours, “without incident and with regularly scheduled service,” he noticed that the boat was leaking oil. He learned about the corrosion during follow-on service and inspection. This timeline is contained in the complaint.

There may be others who have faced replacement or repair costs related to post-warranty corrosion damage on a Yamaha 2000 to 2004 model year First Generation Four Stroke Outboard motor. For a free attorney consultation to determine whether there is an entitlement to compensation, one may contact Reich & Binstock online by submitting the electronic case evaluation request form posted at http://www.reichandbinstock.com.


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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 6:12 am 
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I am considering purchase of a 2007 250 four stroke on a 2510...............should I be concerned about this problem ?

Does anyone know if it was definitely corrected by 2007 vintage ????????????

Any help on this much appreciated !

sarge


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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:59 am 
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I would check with Andy at <andyjr@shipyardisland.com>

This should be second generation F series outboards with improved parts.

Of course, having it scoped would be better

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1994 Parker 2320 Extended Cabin
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 Post subject: Re: Yamaha F225 Corrosion Complaints
PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 7:41 pm 
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Hi Brent - thanks for taking the time to help me. I certainly agree about the scoping and will do that if I get an offer accepted. Apparently the stamp on the motor actually says manufactured 03/2006 and apparently this was put on a 2007 2510 XL and sold as new. I don't know why that motor would not be classified as a left over or non current model year and listed as a 2006 engine on any title document but the broker doesn't think so......... a little strange and I want to be careful regarding actual value.
thanks again -
sarge


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