Another hypothetical question, hull, motor, weight

[Scotthmt]

Hey everyone, thanks for the prompt response to my last question. I have another one to shoot at you guys.

A 2520 parker XL, bracketed yamaha 250, 9x30 trim tabs, Prop from Ken at propgods designed to move a heavier loaded boat.

If i take this combo, how would you expect it to plane and ride loaded heavy with 6-7 180-200lb guys, loaded with fuel and gear.

I am thinking a 250 that is propped correctly, big tabs to get the nose down, should be sufficient to cruise heavy like this at 24-26mph and maybe achieve around 1.8-2 mpg? Am I mistaken or close in the ball park?

 

[Brent]

I am not an expert but on a newer 2320 the weight capacity is 1250 lbs
see
viewtopic.php?t=2362
In 2011 the per person capacity was changed to 185 lbs per person
http://www.uscg.mil/hq/cg5/cg5212/aawpp.asp

in the above ex, the rated 1250 lbs divided by 185 lbs = less than 7 persons

What is weight capacity for your boat? then adjust it to the new person capacity

You might be overloaded and a safety issue if stopped or an unfortunate event occurs

I am just throwing this out as a fyi

 

[Scotthmt]

Thanks for the heads up brent.

Through some google-fu i found someone who stated their 92 2520 had a capacity plate of 2080lbs. Divided by 185 that means about 11 people.

Although now upon further research that may not be correct. Maybe someone with a newer 2520 can chime in here.

I know of two captains around here that run 6 packs out of these 2520's and they often run 6+2. Although how much that means is anyones guess but they seem like straight forward by the books captains.

 

[DaleH]

My Suzuki DF250 w/ 4-blade PowerTech prop would do that, and even much better on fuel economy! I have recorded my specs here w/ 9 aboard my boat.

But honestly, I highly doubt the Yam 4-stroke 250hp can even meet that ...

 

[Scotthmt]

thanks dale, i would get a zuke over a yami but that would be finding a needle in a haystack and repowering isn't much of an option

 

[warthog5]

Depends on sea condition's and current, but don't expect 2.0MPG. Best I got out of a '95 250 2-stroke was 1.8MPG and it averaged 1.4-1.5MPG for the little time we played with it, until we dumped it for a DF-300Ap Suzzy.

 

[TWOBOATER]

In tests the Suzuki has better holeshot / low end torque due to a larger prop, but horsepower is horsepower right? In general terms wouldn't another 250 hp give you the same numbers?

 

[DaleH]

In tests the Suzuki has better holeshot / low end torque due to a larger prop, but horsepower is horsepower right? In general terms wouldn't another 250 hp give you the same numbers?

HP is indeed HP, but the larger diameter prop can carry the load better and with premium 4-blade props, the slip is greatly reduced. As stated somewhere in one of my performance tests, one day I ran with 2 aboard and the next day with 9 adults aboard - same tide, fuel added back to the same, same conditions ... and yet with an additional 1000-pounds or more, I only ran 1mph slower and the fuel economy was to the 0.1mpg differential.

So yes, HP is HP, but effectively delivering that HP is what makes the difference. I myself have seen considerable improvements, even when I had a dirty 2-stroke, when going from a stock or OEM prop to a premium prop or even the best 4-bladed wheels made. Add this with a larger diameter wheel and you have a combination that just cannot be beat!

 

[ctown67]

Hey Dale, are you getting paid by Suzuki?

Maybe things are different in the NE, but down here they are considered the cheap solution. i have a causal friendship with a number of outboard mechanics who all agree that the suzukis do not hold up as well as the other main brands. To the point where they refuse to sell them. Nearly all rental fleets run Yamahas or Mercs. If Suzukis were that much better for less money then surely they would repower with them and save cash.

I am also waiting to see if we have an Evinrude user who can chime in.

 

[DaleH]

Hey Dale, are you getting paid by Suzuki?

Haha, nope sorry, but perhaps I should be! But I provide the truth for free .

FWIW I did have both my local Yamaha and Bombardier dealers also quote on the motor and install. The only way I was paid was by buying the Suzi (new, but leftover) and saving $8,000 off the price that any other local dealer ($25K lowest) offered. 8-grand in MY pocket is something, as I'm sure you'd want that cha-ching to spend too! And that was installed and they did such a good job I didn't have to touch or wire a thing up and that included rigging for 3 control stations (ignition on/start/off at each to boot).

Sorry, but I'm paid by real world examples and results. Don't tell me - show me. But I'm sure you can tell that I'm no fan of Yummie motors, although I'll admit that if I was selling boats I would probably have to go with them on the stern, only to get a nationwide common sales/distribution/service presence.

I mean, Yam only wanted $35K :shock: for their new 300hp installed, albeit electronic controls. However, if you look at the results of Parkers with that expen$ive 300hp 4-stroke on the back, the boats with the Suzuki DF250hp and that larger prop, are achieving as good if not better fuel economy and performance with 50hp less. And also remember, Yummies require a minimum of 89 octane to meet their labeled ratings. What a crock! Without high octane fuel that 300 ain't a real 300 ... as nor are their 250s.

And those, my friend, are indisputable facts as reported on many posts here. I report ... you decide .

 

[ctown67]

Well, that is sure a pretty post. i don't dispute any facts and i don't mind the cost of good fuel either.
However, my point is reliability. i have put on 340 Hours on my 225 in the past 2 years and have done only routine maintenance. I put 800 hours on an F150 with 0 unscheduled service.


i guess we can rehash our opinions when we both get to about 2000 hours.

 

[warthog5]

However, my point is reliability.

It's just what the dealers can push. Different parts of the country are that way....Foe example in the middle of the US away from salt....Merc is king and I wouldn't care to have one. In fact it would be a deal killer.

Here in the Panhandle of Fl. and Mobile,Al. All the SeaTow boats run Suzuki with thousands of hours on them.

Now There are 2 Suzzy dealers within 25mi of me.


I'll add......Suzuki is the Lowest geared motors out there. Look at the gear ratio's on all your motors. This is WHY it can swing a larger prop and get a better bite.

I could have bought any motor I wanted. The dealer I bought thru [Posner Marine] sell's Yamaha and Suzuki.

I got the first DF-300AP to hit this town.

While the boat was being rigged that dealer got a visit from the Yamaha rep's......No not the one's in the US.....The ones from Japan. Yep they all had their camera's around their neck and taking pix's. The went crazy over my Suzuki hanging out there.

Why? Read the cowl. "Suzuki Selective Rotation"

Now you ask....What is that? The foot can turn either direction. This is done with a computer command at the dealer. Then a Right or Left hand prop is installed. No more need to buy a Counter Rotation motor. 1 motor will do either.

The other thing is the foot itself. It has a low water pickup and you can not run the motor on standard muffs. It is also a narrow foot. Kind of like you see on a Merc race motor. This is to create less drag.

Suzuki claims 14% better fuel mileage than their own.....older DF-300's.


I average 2.0MPG in overall performance. It will push the hull to 44MPH which in my mind exceeds a Parkers designed hull speed.

The funny thing is fuel mileage readout does not change if your running 25MPH = 4200 or 30MPH 4400 and that is loaded and full of fuel.


Oh.....and don't forget....Fly-by-wire controls and $3000 saving over a Yamaha.

 

[TWOBOATER]

I've heard lots good about the Suzukis on this sight. It's strange how they are not at all favored in my area (Buzzards Bay). I'm starting to see a few, probably price-driven re-powers. It's strictly Yamaha and Mercury around here. Honda was popular a few years back but they have been eclipsed by the other two when they introduced their superior 4-stroke motors.

I'd like to hear more as these Suzukis rack up a few more years/hours.

 

[DaleH]

Here's a good video synopsis of the lively debate/discussion between a Yam 300hp (with a smaller prop and higher gear ratio) vs. something like the Suzuki 250hp (with a larger diameter prop and lower gear ratio).

HP is HP, but making the most efficient use of the HP is critical, and that all comes down to torque. Get the torque to the prop!

See: http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=FLQhvruimfs

In this case the video pits the 850hp John Deere diesel tractor (as the Yam 300hp OB motor) versus a steam-powered 18hp 100-year old tractor (as the Suzuki 250hp OB).

Yup, only 18hp ...

 

[QwikSticks]

Scott with a 250 and a really heavy load where your total weight all in is around 8400 lbs I bet you see 1 - 1.4 heading into nasty chop or swell and 1.6-1.8 riding with the swell. The heaviest my 2320 with a 250 has been was about this weight which is about 1300lbs over the capacity plate loaded with 4 guys, tuna, ice, slurry, etc just before I was about to come back in and before I dumped the 420lbs of water in the live bait tank. The above was the mileage I was seeing.

When I dumped the live bait tank balanced the boat and ran with the nice 4-6 ft wide swell at about 28mph I was seeing 1.8-2 mpg.

At the heaviest point before i had the weight distributed evenly bow to stern it was the first time I have ever noticed that it took a little longer than normal to plane and the motor actually had to work hard. I was also runing into wind chop and swell 95% of that time so i was plowing also. Might have been different with the wider hull of a 2520. Once I dropped the 420 lbs of water in the bait tank the motor responded like normal and the boat planed quickly again so somehere in the 420lbs was the line for my prop and motor. It could have proably pushed another 600 lbs, I was just not use to that underpowered feeling. I run a rev 4 17p prop and 12x24 tabs + permatrim.

Before the safety police jump on me load your boat like this at your own risk.

 

[Scotthmt]

thank you qwiksticks. The waves we normally fish around here on average a bad fishable day is 5-6' every 9 sec, and in maybe 15mph winds that would add around 1-2' of wind wave. Anything more than that, bigger swell, tighter period, more wind, its just not worth fishing in, becomes not so fun anymore.

Any I won't always run it heavy like that, i'd just like to know that if i had to I could. I think on average i will have around 1000-1100lbs of human body mass. The way we fish here we don't normally have to bring large amounts of ice unless we are albacore fishing, which only happens a few times a season. The majority of fishing is within 6-15m of shore salmon trolling.

Thanks everyone for their input, i feel that this combo may be best suited for me and what I intend on doing.

 

[Scotthmt]

Scott with a 250 and a really heavy load where your total weight all in is around 8400 lbs I bet you see 1 - 1.4 heading into nasty chop or swell and 1.6-1.8 riding with the swell. The heaviest my 2320 with a 250 has been was about this weight which is about 1300lbs over the capacity plate loaded with 4 guys, tuna, ice, slurry, etc just before I was about to come back in and before I dumped the 420lbs of water in the live bait tank. The above was the mileage I was seeing.

When I dumped the live bait tank balanced the boat and ran with the nice 4-6 ft wide swell at about 28mph I was seeing 1.8-2 mpg.

At the heaviest point before i had the weight distributed evenly bow to stern it was the first time I have ever noticed that it took a little longer than normal to plane and the motor actually had to work hard. I was also runing into wind chop and swell 95% of that time so i was plowing also. Might have been different with the wider hull of a 2520. Once I dropped the 420 lbs of water in the bait tank the motor responded like normal and the boat planed quickly again so somehere in the 420lbs was the line for my prop and motor. It could have proably pushed another 600 lbs, I was just not use to that underpowered feeling. I run a rev 4 17p prop and 12x24 tabs + permatrim.

Before the safety police jump on me load your boat like this at your own risk.

Also, while were at it, how do you like the permatrim? Worth the money?

 

[QwikSticks]

Yes i like the permatrim I think it turns the bow down faster coming over the top of a swell than the tabs for a smoother ride at faster speeds and better fuel economy. tabs are just used to balance the boat in those cases. When it becomes a washing machine then i start using the trim and tabs and can keep the boat from pounding at a steady 16 - 18 knots. Which is what i see all the other boats doing in those conditions. It will plane as low 12 knots and still get pretty good mileage.

 

[fighterpilot]

Coming from the Diesel Powered world, the word is--the prop moves the boat. As I move into the Outboard world this background points me to the Suzuki, since it can turn a more effective prop.

 

[ctown67]

Here in the Panhandle of Fl. and Mobile,Al. All the SeaTow boats run Suzuki with thousands of hours on them.

in a year round boating community, that is impressive. I guess why i am watching these threads is due to the rotting exhaust problem on Yammys. i have an 06 so i hope i am safe, but it has made me start a "new engine" slush fund just in case. I get solid performance out of her and have had a couple of yammys with great luck.
Thanks.

Best of luck fighterpilot on your 'Zuk if you go that way.