Confessions of a Green Horn... Help!

[SeaLand]

Hate that my name and profile will be associated with this post but NEED HELP!!!

First a quick disclosure... I picked up my first boat (ever) which was a 23'SE back in Nov 2015. Had some time to get comfortable with it and learning my way inside/outside of the boat.

I am having issues of crossing a passing boat and its wake. Not going WOT by any means and doing "all the right" things of approach at an angle of 30-45 degrees of cutting the wake with the bow. Slowing down if needed based on the size of the wake and such. Regardless of anything I do, the damn thing POUNDS!!! The hull slaps down on the wake that it pounds and for the life of me need some help.

Yes, I know it's a mod-vee boat with 14 degrees in the transom BUT when I am in other shallow hull boats (not skiffs), they don't seem to POUND as much as my Parker. What I am doing wrong?!?! Not only is it embarrassing but clearly dangerous of those in the boat. HELP!!! Thanks a bunch in advance!!!!

 

[shawnee83]

I'm not sure I understand the exact situation? A boat that is passing you running in the same general direction or you are crossing the wake of a boat that has passed in front of you(crossed in front)? Might just be a timing thing with the throttle and or trim etc. or your speed?

 

[SeaLand]

Shawnee83, thanks for the reply. I am referring to the pounding effect when I am crossing a wake from a boat coming towards me; the wake thrown from a passing boat either on the port/starboard side. It pounds when I hit the second and third wave motion from the crossing boat.

I have tried the classic method of crossing the wake at a 45 degree angle, putting my bow into the wake. I have tried it at different angles and at different speeds. Say I am running about 20-25 knots, a passing boat is traveling about the same speed, we cross each other producing our individual wakes - I put the bow into the other boat's wake at around 45 degrees to cut the wake wave while slowing the boat down a bit. Regardless of what I do, the boat will POUND on the second the third wave/wake. Again, I have tried it at different speeds (besides of almost coming to a complete stop) it still pounds.

I am amazed this happens and I have been on other (Non-Parker) boats with about the same deadrise and theirs does not seem to SLAP and POUND on "reentry" of the second wave off the first. Case in point, I was with two different inshore fishing guides in their boats (one a Kenner and the other a Sundance), both of which have a mod-vee with a shallow draft/transom area, and actually their boats weigh less than the Parker 23SE. Both boat seem to come off the first wake/wave of the passing boat pretty smooth and will "roll" and "land more soft" than my Parker. I am confused of what I am doing wrong OR is the Parker that bad in the POUNDING effect?

Thanks again for any suggestions!

I'm not sure I understand the exact situation? A boat that is passing you running in the same general direction or you are crossing the wake of a boat that has passed in front of you(crossed in front)? Might just be a timing thing with the throttle and or trim etc. or your speed?

 

[PaulNBriannaLynn]

You may need to slow down to just above plane if its a sizeable wake. Not unique to the 23SE that's just the way a 23 foot boat handles. I'm not sure what other boats your comparing to but I'd guess its more of the captains of these other boats knowing how to back off the throttle and get the timing right. We're on our 9th boat with our 23SE, and I can assure you there is no significant pounding issue with the hull. Your just going too fast!

 

[Burtona]

Some things to try.
1. Slow down!
2. Slow down!
3. Slow down!
4. Try running the trim tabs lower to keep the bow down. You may be running too bow up
5. Slow down!
Wakes have a pretty steep face and all boats I've ever had in 50+ years of boating will pound under certain conditions and speeds.

 

[SeaLand]

Burtona, thanks for the reply.

Like I mentioned, I have slowed down quite a bit. The only way I can NOT make it pound is when I come to almost a complete stop/neutral throttle so I just roll over the waves.

Here's the typical situation:

a) cruising about 25knots in the water way
b) see an approaching boat going about the same speed, throwing a wake about 2 feet
c) I start to turn away from the boat and its wake
d) I begin to slow down pulling the throttle back, slow down about half the speed
e) we pass one another, I then turn into its wake at a 45 degree angle, all the while slowing down a bit
f) when I cut the first wave, I slow down even more
g) the second wave/wake is next and can see it's going to slap the keel
h) POUND!
i) The third (smaller wake/wave) slaps a little too

So, do I slow down and then push the speed up again after the first?

Am I asking too much to go 15knots when crossing an approaching boat's wake OR do I have to slow down soooo much to a dead stop to avoid the POUND? I cannot believe that a boat has to slow down soooo much to a dead stop. I don't even see flat bottom skiffs slow down as much as I do... I am in need for some help!

Some things to try.
1. Slow down!
2. Slow down!
3. Slow down!
4. Try running the trim tabs lower to keep the bow down. You may be running too bow up
5. Slow down!
Wakes have a pretty steep face and all boats I've ever had in 50+ years of boating will pound under certain conditions and speeds.

 

[SeaLand]

Paul, thanks for the reply!

I have slowed down even to a complete stop to avoid the pounding effect. I have tried a bunch of different speeds to test it out; no speed expect a dead stop will avoid the slap and pound.

I have tested slowing down and when coming off the first wake, I have increased speed to catch the second wave to have the bow cut the wave... Nothing helps expect a dead stop.

I a having a tough time believing that I have to slow down to a complete stop to crest the wave from 25 knots then return back to speed. I don't see flat bottom boats do this...

Even in other boats, I feel the hull cutting the wave, get a little airborne and land on the second wave very softly. Mine will cut the first wave like the others but then slap and pound on the second wave. Any thoughts besides speed since I have tried all speeds?

You may need to slow down to just above plane if its a sizeable wake. Not unique to the 23SE that's just the way a 23 foot boat handles. I'm not sure what other boats your comparing to but I'd guess its more of the captains of these other boats knowing how to back off the throttle and get the timing right. We're on our 9th boat with our 23SE, and I can assure you there is no significant pounding issue with the hull. Your just going too fast!

 

[shawnee83]

I think it's just a factor if experience/speed/timing/throttle/trim and angle of attack. You just need to keep at it until you figure it out. For example, if you don't want to slow down, then swing out then turn into the wake so you cross directly across it(90 degree). The idea is the the v of the hull crosses directly through the wake and not at an angle in this case. This is fine to a point as long as the wake is not very large. At a 45 or so angle the concept is to pull back power to slow just before falling off plane as you cross the first wake then back in your power as you cross the top of wake 2. Sometimes I find trimming the engine up to lift the bow when you are throttling back up is necessary as this will help in not driving your bow back down hard on the back side. You just need time and practice and trial and error. You will learn which wakes you need to slow down more for and the angles to cross them. As stated by Burtona, slow down for now as you figure it out.

 

[rwp48]

The first time I ran our 2520XL I did the same thing. Running at about 20 kts., took the wake at about a 45* angle. The boat felt like it launched off a trampoline! Bow went up in the air and came down with a hard THUMP! My wife looked at me and said "well, we are going to have to work on that a bit!"
I experimented a bit with different power settings, different approach angles and different engine trim and trim tab adjustment and was able to take most of the dramas out of wake crossings. BTW, my preference is to not turn into the wake but rather turn away a bit and take it on about a 30* angle. Regardless, my Parker is way smoother than my old Boston Whaler. That darn thing would knock your fillings out!

 

[kidfreediver]

Your ass heavy

 

[Brent]

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2011/aug ... worthy.asp

the other boat is responsible too

Is there a speed limit?

We see this in SW Florida on the ICW, they just fly on the water ...sometimes hit some skinny water LOL

 

[SeaLand]

RWP48, ha! I am glad to hear that I am not the only one... Yes, my wife told me the same thing - which I am working on but not dialed in quite yet.

You and others have mentioned playing with the trim tabs. I normally do not run tabs unless there is an uneven load on one side of the boat. Usually, it's just me and my young son so there's not much load on one particular side thus the reason I don't use my tabs too often.

Regarding tabs, am I to understand that it's normal to run the tabs regularly when underway? Again, I cannot stress enough that I am a "Greenhorn" still learning my way; I did not know that running tabs down was normal. Usually, I have the O/B tried down when shooting out of the hole/starting from a dead stop. When I push to plane, I begin to trim the engine up to a point where I listen for the "right noise" of the O/B. I have a F200 (4 stroke-inline 4) where I have found that my ideal cruise is about 3700RPMs, going about 25knots/28MPH. I'm 6'1'' and don't have an issue seeing over the console/bow but I would say the bow is slightly up. I have played with the tabs where the bow does even out/lower to a point where most of the hull is parallel to the water line BUT I find that way annoying since the water spray and overall noise is too much. Is that the way to run or slightly stern heavy with the bow slightly up?

Thanks for the input!

The first time I ran our 2520XL I did the same thing. Running at about 20 kts., took the wake at about a 45* angle. The boat felt like it launched off a trampoline! Bow went up in the air and came down with a hard THUMP! My wife looked at me and said "well, we are going to have to work on that a bit!"
I experimented a bit with different power settings, different approach angles and different engine trim and trim tab adjustment and was able to take most of the dramas out of wake crossings. BTW, my preference is to not turn into the wake but rather turn away a bit and take it on about a 30* angle. Regardless, my Parker is way smoother than my old Boston Whaler. That darn thing would knock your fillings out!

 

[SeaLand]

Kidfeediver, thanks for the input... My 23SE does not have any after-market modifications and running pretty much what came from the factory; don't have any additional weight in the "ass" as you mentioned.

Are you referring to me using the trim tabs more to lift the stern thus making the entire boat more even from bow to stern? I normally do not run tabs unless there is an uneven load however it's normally my young son and I in the boat so it does not list to one side. Am I to expect that I need to run my tabs most times underway to again, even out the bow to stern? I was under the impression that I such always run with the bow slightly higher for better fuel burn BUT I am willing to give up fuel efficiency if I can get rid of the damn POUND/SLAP when crossing a wake.

Let me know your thoughts. Thanks!

Your ass heavy

 

[SeaLand]

Brent:

I am referring to crossing other boats in the ICW so there is not really a "speed limit" other than good old common sense. Even though I am a Greenhorn, I know that some folks don't always use common sense and go way too fast. Nothing I can do other than reacting safely to their ways.

http://www.boatus.com/magazine/2011/august/seaworthy.asp

the other boat is responsible too

Is there a speed limit?

We see this in SW Florida on the ICW, they just fly on the water ...sometimes hit some skinny water LOL

 

[Burtona]

If you have room, change the crossing angle by turning out away from from the other boat and crossing at a shallower angle.
On the 21SE I used to own, I used the trim tabs to plant the bow down so it didn't tend to rise as much on a wake. The bow rise is what causes the pounding.
Play with the tabs to adjust for the best ride, not to just keep the boat level. You will be amazed at how effective they are in choppy water.

 

[rwp48]

I prefer to run with as little tab as possible but some times putting a bit of bow-down on the tabs mitigates the trampoline effect.