To kicker or to get a bigger Parker

[Aircoastie]

Hello all,

I read almost everything and really enjoy what everybody has to say, I should do some more posting... So here is my attempt.

Wanted to ask you all for some thoughts. I have a very nice 2320 that I have fished out of the norther Gulf since 05. It has been the best boat I have ever owned!! I am in the Coast Guard, I am currently overseas for a few months training, missing the boat and thinking of projects for the boat. I will be getting back to Alabama in about a month, tuna fish the rigs during the summer, then come winter, the CG will be moving my wife and I to Miami!!

I am from S. Florida, so it will be nice to get home. What I really want to start doing is some regular Bahamas runs. The one thing that I have always been cognizant of is that we have a single engine. I do not mind singles, I work search and rescue for a living and many of the boats I go looking for have twins, but still I am lacking some redundancy (I am a Coastie and like to be prepared).

What I have come down to is that I think I will be putting a high thrust kicker on when I get back home. As I have thought about this it seems like I can now get a lot more boat for the money (my boat value has unfortunately dropped as well). So my question is, how much do you think I would gain by trading my current 2320 for a 2520 with twin 150's as opposed to just putting a kicker on. I love my boat, understand the concept of hull speed and am pretty sure a single 150 would not get a 2520 on plane. So I know I will not get a lot of benefit in terms of get home speed in the event of an engine casualty with either setup. How much bigger is a 2520 offshore, and to those of you who run them, do they provide a lot more security offshore then a 2320 equipped with the same safety systems?

Thanks for any input, sorry for the long blabbering post, just overseas with a lot of time on my hands!!!

 

[Sykes]

Make a few trips to the islands first. Your boat will not have any problems. But then again don’t forget about the regulations over there, their Gov has been cracking down again and its not worth the trip (however you being in the coastguard has it benefits, I'll go with you!! LOL). I fish out of miami and love to trailer to homestead and fish for yellowtail, its just like the islands...

 

[Aircoastie]

I will be working out of Opa Loca and we are seriously considering buying a few acres down in Homestead and just making the 40 mile commute to Opa Loca. The property and the fishing down there is part of the allure!! We are also looking in the FT. Lauderdale area, do you know of any safe neighborhoods that you can keep a boat on a trailer. Thanks for the input, we will have to hookup for some fishing trips when we get down there!!

 

[TheOtherLine]

The seas between Miami and the Bahamas can get VERY ugly, VERY fast, VERY often. If you lose your main motor and the weather turns, that kicker isn't going to do squat.

If you have the $, get the 25' DV with twins. As long as your problem isn't fuel related, your golden.

It's been a while since I've done that trip but I've been told that recently, the hassle factor of going to the Bahamas outweighs the fishing benefits.
Be careful.

Thank you for your service.

 

[BradV]

Ive been to the Bahamas twice this year already. Its not as bad as people make it out to be. Yes maybe its tougher regulations than previously but its still fun. I would keep the 23 that you have. I cant imagine the 25 is going to go through anything more than the 23 can handle. I have the 2530 with twin 225's. I cant plane with a single 225 either. A kicker would be good enough. I would imagine you arent going to be running over alone and even if you are just call on the radio and youll soon realize you arent alone on your crossing after all. You also get way better fuel economy with the 23 than you will with the 25. I havent seen over 1.8 mpg since i got it.

 

[grouperjim]

Bahamas in my Parker........launched out of Haulover......done it a few times. My family enjoys the Keys better.......IMO a better value for the money all the way around.

As far as multiple outboards go.......if you have a dead soldier and want to plane, you had better have triples otherwise with twins unless you swap out the prop to a lower pitch, you'll be seriously lugging the good engine. In most cases damaging an expensive engine to save time is not going to be worth it. So, with twins is not a big deal to get on plane with one..........you'll be limping in on the good one or the kicker.

 

[Phil]

I also don’t see much of a safety difference between a 23’ w/kicker and 25’ w/twin (more convenience but not safer.) As I recall, Shackleton used a 22 1/2’ boat to reach help in the roughest seas on earth. He has proven the captain’s ability is much more important than the boat. The purpose of a kicker is not to be useable in all sea condition—even a main engine can’t do that. Its purpose is to be useable when condition allows. So if the weather is too rough for the kicker, just relax and lay low until the weather calms down. Most weather system will blow by within 24-48 hours. The pilothouse is great for relaxing.

One of the best safety feature of the Parker pilothouse is that it will naturally drift with the bow pointing down seas in rough weather. This happens because the pilothouse will act as a sail and catch the wind down seas. This is a very safe posture—the safest posture being bow pointing to the waves while drifting DOWN SEAS. This posture can only be achieved with a proper size sea anchor. I keep reading on the net that you should point your bow into the waves by powering UP SEAS into the waves. I think this is a mistake because now you are fighting the seas. It might work in moderately rough seas, but in really rough seas it gets very tiring to stay in this posture. All it takes is a brief lapse of concentration, a rouge wave, or a gust of wind and the boat is instantly BEAM to the SEAS—which is the most dangerous posture. You also waste a lot of fuel which you may need later.

 

[Phil]

Check out the chronology of the James Caird. Very cool.

http://www.antarcticconnection.com/anta ... aird.shtml

 

[Aircoastie]

Thanks for all the replies guys!! I have been very impressed with this big little 23's performance. The northern gulf really sucks in the winter. Short wave confused sea states and cold wet weather!! There have been a few times that fronts have pushed through a little sooner then forecasted and the 2320 really performed! Ultimately my wife and I want to get a 2530, but right now I am in love with this boat and just want a bit more safety. All I see in my job is disasters at sea, so I tend to overkill my safety and survival systems. I will post what I am thinking of putting together for the kicker in the projects section. I am going to try and tackle some of the common system failures I see every week at work with independent redundancy of those systems. Thanks again, I am currently in Spain, its nice over here, but not many Parkers!!!

 

[Phil]

Like I stated, the safest is bow to the sea with a proper sea anchor. The second safest position is to go with the seas in rough seas. I’m speaking from experience. I was tuna fishing 40nm SE Nantucket and got caught in 25-35 knot NW winds with true 6’ to 8’ seas, with occasional 10’. Home was about 55nm NW. One minute after trying to head home in the head seas, I knew I could not last the 10+ hours ride in so I waited between wave sets and turned around and headed East down seas at idle in gear.

Everything calmed down even though the seas were still big. Every time a big wave came at my stern, the boat moved down wind so the impact was muted. Very little water came over the stern—and I HAVE A CUTOUT TRANSOM WITH SPLASHWELL. I put on my work/survival suit and got out my liferaft just in case. After an hour of “near misses” I put the engine in neutral. After, a couple of hours of that I started taking naps. I ended drifting about 40 nm east to Little Georges—the west side of Georges Bank. The seas calmed down to 3’ to 4’ and I trolled all the way home on autopilot. Keep my experience in mind if you ever get caught in rough seas—it might help you out.

 

[pelagic2530]

i doubt i can add much here, as i have zero experience with kickers, but i can tell you that having run a 2530 with twin 150s, i will probably never own a boat that is capable of handling twins without them. for me, its a factor of wanting the redundancy and the safety it provides. admittedly, most times engine problems are going to be caused by fuel problems, but thats going to kill a kicker and main just as easily as two twins. however, if for some odd reason i manage to take one lower unit off, or experience some other type of catastrophic engine fatality, i want the bigger engine to push me home. i realize that a 150 isnt going to plane my boat, but its going to be a he!! of alot better than a 25 and might actually be able to push the boat through some slop. so, thats my limited experience in this matter. now, should you upgrade for this reason? i dont know, thats alot of factors to weigh between the two boats which has been discussed endlessly on this forum. i honestly cant offer any input on that.

and lastly, thank you for your service to our country and community!!! semper paratus 8)

 

[Phil]

I also carry a 7 gal plastic tank with stabilized gas and fitting for the kicker. I had to use it once when I was very low on fuel and still 10 nm from port. I wanted to save whatever gas I have left in the main tank so I can dock with the main engine.

As to both engines using the same fuel from the main tank, I have limped home on more occasions than I want to admit due to clogged VST filter on the main engine. The kicker, on the other hand, just snorts the white stuff cause by ethanol and spits it out...

 

[TheOtherLine]

What I really want to start doing is some regular Bahamas runs .

As I have thought about this it seems like I can now get a lot more boat for the money (my boat value has unfortunately dropped as well). So my question is, how much do you think I would gain by trading my current 2320 for a 2520 with twin 150's as opposed to just putting a kicker on.

I have to agree with Pelagic. I'd rather limp home with one 150 than a 9.9 kicker.

There is a notable difference in size between the 23 and the 25. It's not just 2' longer.

Based on your statements, I'll stick with mine. If you have the $$$ get the 25. He!! get the 34" ! If you don't want to spring for the difference, get the kicker and be extra careful.

Bad seamanship will get you killed just as easy in a 25 as in a 23.

 

[Megabyte]

There is a notable difference in size between the 23 and the 25. It's not just 2' longer.

Very true. There is also the matter of an extra foot of beam.
The 2320 is an excellent vessel, but size still matters. 8)

 

[Sykes]

Of all the stupid things that can be done with a Parker, I have yet to fill it with water while being cautious. Catching bait with a cast net off the beach going thru breakers (lots younger then and probably used the girlfrinds gas card for fuel) it had pitched and filled a few times but it always pops up. Heavy seas coming or going from the Bahamas has its drawl backs but the worst is in the stream thats only 10 to 15 miles wide. Now you boys up north see a lot more than we do, I've worked up that way on a sword boat. I use a five gallon bucket or two for a sea anchor and it keeps the bow into the waves when drift fishing. However I do have a true sea anchor for an emergency, never let your boat go stern to a heavy sea... Furthermore I must add that it all depends on the boats hull design. A 25 degree handles very different than a 14degree hull with a wide beam. A deep V with twins and an open stern will go down in seconds compared to a 14 degree. But if you look around, most boats built today should never leave the inlet..

 

[MaxOut]

There is a notable difference in size between the 23 and the 25. It's not just 2' longer.

Very true. There is also the matter of an extra foot of beam.
The 2320 is an excellent vessel, but size still matters. 8)

I agree. :wink:

This is what I would do in your position. I would fit a 2520DV with twin 225HP engines. That way you can plane on one. I would also have twin fuel tanks installed and plumed so you can run on either or both. I also agree a kicker is no were near as good as a 150hp or larger in snotty waters. Besides in a Parker you are not going to run fast in rough seas but you will need power to make quick maneuvers.

 

[Aircoastie]

This is all good information for me to digest!! I agree, good seamanship and diligent preparation is much more important then the type of boat you are in! One thing that I heard a few of you talk about is the minimal benefit of the Bahamas over the Florida Keys. With that said, I may just stick to a few summer trips to the Bahamas and really learn the fishing down in the keys. I will need to price out a few 2520's to see what I would be looking at in a trade, but like I said, I really love the 2320, good size for almost everything we do. Eventually I really want to upgrade to a 2520 or 30 with twin 150's, just now sure if that will be now or later on.

In the Gulf most of the Search and Rescue I fly on for overdue vessels has been for silly stuff, like forgetting the plug and sinking when you finally slow down 40 miles out, or taking an undersize open boat out when the wx is questionable.

Recently I had to be towed in due to my F225 loosing the fuel pump under warranty!! That was the nail in the coffin for me wanting a twin or a kicker. So I guess I will price some 25 trades along with what it will cost for the kicker project... I will let you guys know what I decide on. I would really like to meet some of you all in S. Florida, do you all ever get together?

 

[grouperjim]

......... I would really like to meet some of you all in S. Florida, do you all ever get together?

not successfully. seems to be too much going on in FL for people to commit for an organized raft up. the eastern seaboard guys do it on a regular basis, and West Coasters have gotten together.......they just had a good one.

the best thing to do is figure out who on the forum lives near you, and hook-up on your own.

 

[MARKW432156]

Sounds like your single outboard is newer so you probably wouldn't want to do this but just in case....

You could repower with twin F115's on your 2320. Not a normal set up from the factory, but there are a few around. I own a 2001 2320 with twin F115's over in Pensacola. When you get back to the Gulf Coast if you want to go for a ride or take a fishing trip on my boat to see how it handles would be happy to take you out. I cruise at 25kt around 4700 rpm and WOT is 35 knots at 5900 rpm. Plenty fast for what I want to do which is bottom fish up to 35nm out in the northern Gulf.

Just another option..
Mark W

 

[Porkchunker]

I have a 2002 2510 (MV, 14 deg deadrise hull) powered with twin F-115s. She won't plane on one, but a single F-115 will push her at hull speed through the nastiest slop. I'm not sure a kicker would make headway under all conditions.

Managed to wrap a 9wt fly line around one prop at the CBBT a couple of years back. Limped home on one motor, backed into the ramp, put on my hip waders, removed the line, and then roared back to the fishing grounds. If the water hadn't been 46 deg. I would have tried to lean over the platform and remove it manually.

If all you need to do is to keep the boat in a safe position with respect to nasty seas while waiting for TowBoat US or the Coasties, then a kicker would do. Much cheaper also. In calm seas, a kicker will push you at hull speed with is about all I can do with a single F-115 anyway.

Dave

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