4 stroke vs. e-tec

[bigjoe]

HELP looking to buy a new 23 foot sports cabin with a 250 e-tec someone who has one please advise me of performance

 

[DaleH]

Not a fair poll ... should also consider the Suzuki 250 (my #1 4-S choice) and the Merc Optimax, which would be THE best motor you could put on in regards to fuel efficiency.

Beware, that Yummie 250hp only develops 2350hp if you run HIGH octane fuel, otherwise she's only a 230+hp motor on 87.

 

[PAYDAY]

I know you are high on Suz 250 Dale. I locked up a deal on a used 04 250 4s to-day. Have a date with the Mech for rigging PAYDAY 8/28. Need a prop what is your reccomendation?

 

[Parker23]

Watch the weight issue of the 4S engines.

 

[PaulH / Emily S]

Dale - Please stop trashing the Yammie 250 4 stroke, it is a GREAT engine. Throw in the Yamaha dealer network and it is an absolute home run.

I repowered my 2520DVSC with a F250 Yamaha (four stroke). My top end is identicle to the CARBED Yamaha 250 I replaced. I repeat, top speed is identical. Therefore, HP at WOT is identical.

Every gas dock I know on Long Island sells 89 octane fuel, which is MID, not HIGH octane fuel. My F250 has only been run on 89 octane fuel, as was my carbed 250, that is all that's available.

Did I mention the top speed of the F250 is identical to the carbed 250 I replaced ??

Now, consider the fact that this engine burns about 30% less fuel than the carbed 250 I replaced. 30%, WOW

Consider the fact that I don't know what the exhaust from this engine smells like (because you can't smell it).

Consider the fact that it is the smoothest and quietest engine everyone who comes on my boat has ever heard.

Consider the fact that I, like so many owners of this particular engine are extremely happy with their selection of a really good product, from a really good company.

Don't confuse the F250 with the F225 which is in fact deficient in HP (at one time anyway).

Many good choices today, don't sell Yamaha short, besides they belong on a Parker and will have a positive effect on the resale value.

The Zuke costs more, the dealer network where I live sucks, and there is really no way to justify considering one over a Yamaha, IMO. So, why is the Suzuki 250 better than the Yamaha 250 ? Somebody show me some hard facts, I'll show you mine.

Optimax, cheap to buy, but please. They finally have them running good, but why go back to the dark ages of noise, exhaust, and oil ?

E-TEC a maybe, the jury is still out on this one. Again, if they were better wouldn't our favorite boat company sell them with E-TECS ?

In fact, name a quality builder who rigs with E-TEC out the door ? I'm curious ??

The Suzuki 300 was an interesting choice for my repower, but I couldn't wait (the engine wasn't available) , again the dealers in my area don't cut it for me, and the money, ooffaa. There is a least one post on this board where the Zuke 300 numbers were very disappointing.

Can't wait to see the perf numbers for a 2520DVSC with a Yamie F350 :shock: .

Good luck, like I said, lots of good choices these days, but do consider Yamaha, they take a back seat to no one, all things considered.

 

[Hugs Tug]

Just two quick comparisons on Yamaha vs Suzuki.
The Suzuki has,
1- Timing chain over timing belt
2- Higher amperage charging system

Good luck with whatever your choice is.
Tom

 

[DaleH]

Dale - Please stop trashing the Yammie 250 4 stroke, it is a GREAT engine. Throw in the Yamaha dealer network and it is an absolute home run.

Huh? My only knock on that motor is that it is not a 250hp motor 'unless' you run high octane fuel. Given the other advantages of the Suzuki and honestly, I am leaning towards a black Zuke on my boat for next Spring. Looking at 300 ponies though ...

 

[JWL]

I have no axe to grind about Yamaha or any other manufacturer for that matter. But for someone to make the statement to check out what manufacturers send out the door is foolish. Yamaha bought many boat manufacturers ten years ago or so in order to get their engines out to the public. Most of these were bass boats and other small pleasure boats generally used on freshwater. Theirs is the same tactic used by Brunswick Marine in buying manufactrers such as Ranger, Sea Ray, etc. OMC had an agreement with Genmar to supply engines to their boats. In conjunction with this Yamaha offered HUGE incentives to manufacturers for them to rig their products with Yamaha. The independent manufacturers such as Parker to advantage of these incentives. If you think the manufacturers simply chose Yamaha because they are better than other engines you probably aren't smart enough to own a boat.

BTW, Yamaha different prices on parts and warranty labor work for those dealers which only sell Yamaha. Again nothing to do with who makes the bset outboard.

Yamaha has an internal goal to dominate the U.S. outboard market and has taken very aggressive steps to do this, There is nothing evil about this practice as I'm sure any manufacturer of any product would like to dominate a market.

 

[greatcir]

As a past boat manufacturer I can assure you our company did not buy any engines on incentives alone. When you are manufacturing boats you had better listen to your potential customers and deal quickly with any issues your existing customers have. And they will all let you know what they want and what they do not want regarding engines. You hear it all day on the phone and in boat shows.
Secondly, there is the issue of engine delivery, set-up, and testing. If the engines are not in your shop on time you lose money very quickly (incentives or not). If you do not have competent engine manufacturer help to assist in setting engines and controls up on each new engine or not hearing in advance about some changes that affect your hull or lay boat out then you lose money quickly. And you want engines that fire up out of the box and perform as advertised because you do advertise them.
When an engine has a problem, I suspect most customers call the dealer first and they are not happy about losing boating time. The dealer calls the boat manufacturer and round we all go.
Finally there are the dealers which are a whole different kettle of fish. They always have the choice to drop your line of boats if they do not want the engines (s) you offer and they offer strong feedback on engines.
So again it is not just incentives that drive a good boat manufacturer. It is instead a strong partnership of customers, dealers, employees, banks, and a reputable reliable reasonably priced engine manufacturer.
I have not seen statistics, but the one in the chain I think makes the least money is the boat manufacturer with molds, toxics, specialized work force, tight schedules and competition.
Just my 2 cents about boat manufacturers picking engines. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Pete

PS: Personally, I think 4s are the wave of the future and will enhance most resales.

 

[grouperjim]

Dale:

Where does this info come from? Also, can I assume that if 87 octane yields less than 250 HP, and 89 produces 250 HP, then 93 octane would yield greater than 250 HP. Is that logical?

Thanks.

jim

 

[PaulH / Emily S]

Dale - It's as true a 250 as a 1995 carbed Yamaha 250, which is a legendary performer. It does not need HIGH octane fuel, what don't you understand ??

Your light weight MV would be very happy with an F250. Don't think black anchor, do the right thing .....

I bet if Yamaha offered an F300 you wouldn't hesitate, ya' gonna put a Verado on a 25 MV ??

 

[grouperjim]

I have heard from multiple UNreliable sources that the Yamaha f250 actually puts out 268 HP with 93 octane. But I can't find any literature on the web or elsewhere to verify the octane/horse power output.

jim

 

[JWL]

I have heard from multiple UNreliable sources that the Yamaha f250 actually puts out 268 HP with 93 octane. But I can't find any literature on the web or elsewhere to verify the octane/horse power output.

jim

I don't understand the statements that any engine puts out more horsepower with 93 octane vs. 87 or 89. For those that make this statement you don't understand the purpose of octane.

THe fact is, higher octane fuels require a higher compression to combust an lower octane. In other words, low octane fuels actually burn hotter than high octane which is why a high compression ratio engine requires higher octane fuel. If you use low octane fuel in a high compression ratio engine you may get detonation as the fuel burns at a lower compression and, in effect, explodes prior to the piston reaching top dead center or where ever it was designed to ignite. The result of this premature explosion can cause real damage to pistions, connecting rods, and valves, leading to severe damage to your engine. This premature fuel burn is what people hear when they say the engine is "pinging". When an engine "pings" the fuel is burning too early as the spark plug is not causing the firing but instead the fuel burn is the result of the engine dieseling. Same thing as a diesel engine the fuel is too hot due to compression and prematurely burning.

All of the above has very little to do with the horsepower of any engine, outboard, inboard, or car. Horsepower is, in part, a result of the higher compression ratio driving the pistons but has nothing to do with the octane of the fuel per se.

 

[grouperjim]

Hey, don't quote me as an authority on octane, Dale is the "Motorhead" here---see his posts above.

I am simply trying to figure out this whole octane thing like everybody else. I will say though, that when I run 93 octane versus 89, the boat definitely feels a little more peppy with that extra "tiger" in the tank.

jim

 

[gw204]

Never thought I'de say this, but I don't think you can go wrong with any of them these days....

That being said, Merc Opti would get my vote.

 

[Outta Here]

Not a fair poll ... should also consider the Suzuki 250 (my #1 4-S choice) and the Merc Optimax, which would be THE best motor you could put on in regards to fuel efficiency.

Beware, that Yummie 250hp only develops 2350hp if you run HIGH octane fuel, otherwise she's only a 230+hp motor on 87.

Heck, my "Yummie" 225-4 only has about 118hp (according to anti-Yummieplanet). Even so, it runs my 23DV over 40 anytime, starts on one starter revolution, almost never needs repair, uses little fuel and can't hear it run. Best of all, it's a YAMAHA.

sorry, OMC is DOA.