Engine won't start - any ideas?

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H

Hannibal

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Location
Waldorf, MD
In regards to a 1991 Parker 2110 Walk Around/Cuddy with a 2003 Evinrude 225 FICHT/Bombadier.

While prepping the boat to head out this past weekend, I ran into a problem and I couldn't get the boat to start. She's new to me but ever since I first got her, she's been a PITA to start up. I replaced the starter a couple months ago and that cleared all problems but it's been acting funny the past month or so. This past Wednesday, I hooked up the hose to the motor and started her up (to make sure before I got on the water) and after some coaxing and numerous cranks, she fired up and ran fine. I repeated this process Saturday afternoon after I hooked up the trailer to the truck, pulled the tarp and got the fishing gear situated ........... just to double check. Well, this time she took forever to turn over and after running for a few minutes, she cut off and couldn't be coaxed to start again. I decided to call off the trip.

I played with it some more but it got progressively worse. With the cranking power starting off strong (just not the apparent spark to turn it over), it started to dwindle. I figured I was draining the batteries so I hooked it up to my truck but still got the same weak crank and no fire.

After messing with it for a while, I noticed a slight burning smell so I pulled off the engine cover and noticed a touch of smoke coming from the connection point of the red battery wire (heavier guage) to a particular peice. I am not sure what it is - but it's not the starter solenoid I replaced, it's just below it and connected to the starter via that red wire.

Being that this is an older boat, I am not 100% certain of its maintenance records. My intention has always been to have it COMPLETELY serviced over the winter (new filters, tune up, etc) - a complete once-over - to give me a good baseline for yearly servicing. On Saturday, I more or less chalked it up as it was not meant to be and my fishing was done for the year but with the big cows still not in the water, I'd like to take a crack and fixing the problem is not too difficult.

Could anyone possibly point me in the right direction as to the problem? I can take pics of the peice that was smoking (tonight) if that would help. In relation to the starter (very top, stern/port side of the engine block) - this peice was down on the port side, more towards the bow side (closer in proximity to the transom) and was connected to the starter via a heavy guage red/possitive wire. The connection point of this peice to the wire seemed to be the origin of the smoke. Had almost a burning plastic smell to it.

Any ideas via taking it off and buying a replacement (once I figure out what it is)? I am trying to avoid running to a marina repair due to time.

Thanks in advance.

Will
 
Will,
Smoke (or heat) is sometimes caused by a poor connection. Have you removed these wires and cleaned the terminals well? I would do this for all the battery connections as well. Many electrical problems start with poor connections and dirty terminals.

Good luck.

Steve
 
Steve - now that you mention it, I did think the connection was crappy. It seemed loose and dirty. However, what has me concerned is (if I remember correctly) that I don't believe it was an issue where the ring terminal wasn't screwed down tight to the post. It seemed that the post itself was loose. Being that the area was hot, I didn't fool with it much but I might just give that a once over and at least clean it up a bit to see if that solves the problem. That would be a huge relief to find out it is something that simple. It would also make sense as the gradually worsening starting issues could easily be explained by a gradually loosening connection.
 
I too thought it might be the connections. Loose connections build up tremendous heat. Also, NEVER crank on a starter for that long. Also wait between burts if she's not starting ... don't crank, crank, and crank. If a loose post - replace the battery or unit. But to ensure battery connections are tight, I put a large SS lock washer down on the terminal posts BEFORE the leads. Then the leads and a nylok locking nut, and NOT wing nuts. SS internal or external tooth lock washers between leads are great too.

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As far as starting that puppy, make sure you have thr right plugs and that they are set to the right gap. Also re-check them every 50-100 hours of use. If OK at 50 (if were new), you can wait 'til 100 on the next set to check.

Press primer bulb FIRM with end towards OB motor higher than side from tank, keep pressing even when firm as this is how you literally filll the primer solenoid reservoir. Put key in, turn to ON (but not crank), push key IN and count a slow count to 6. Let key return out. Go back and re-prime the primer bulb. Go back and push key IN while turned to ON and count to 6 again. Release pushing key ... advance throttle a bit ... and turn to CRANK. She should fire up within a few tries.

That motor should have "Quick Start" and will advance the throttle itself by a timing advance, so don't manually put the throttle up too high by the control, or you'll defeat the QS mechanism.
 
Thanks Dale. The connections at the battery are rock solid. I did check those out the other day. The connection of concern is where the red (heavy guage) wire leaves the starter solenoid and makes a connection to another component just below it. It's about a 6" long wire and connects via a ring connection to a terminal on this particular peice (I don't know what it is). It felt lose and is the source of the heat. I will look to tighten it down but part of thinks it's the actual post that is loose - not necessarly the connection. One fix is certainly easier than the other, but in any event, I am confident that I've found the source of my house (I hope!).
 
Update:

I checked all connections (main cables to battery, various connections at/around starter, solenoid, etc). Everything looked good.

I had my father-in-law (mechanic) look things over and when he asked me to start the motor up, he quickly heard and said "shut it off - it's the starter."

We looked at the starter and you could see evidence of heat and the housing was actually cracked. So we pulled that off and he said he has a buddy who can rebuild it (or replace it).

My concern is that the starter is a byproduct of the problem .... and not the problem.

When I was first messing with the problem (see original post), the engine cranked hard but it wouldn't fire/turn over. I kept trying to start it - over and over. Eventually, you could hear an audible change in how "hard" the engine was cranking. It sounded like it was losing power. It became very sluggish.

Part of me thinks I killed the starter trying to resolve the issue ...... not that the starter WAS the issue. Make sense?

I could be both in that I wasn't giving the motor enough volts to turn over but enough to crank. And the continual cranking eventually overheated/killed the starter. So maybe replacing it will solve the problem but I am slightly pessimistic.

Any thoughts?
 
Bryan 2530":7q06nkci said:
Do a compression test, if the cylinders are scored that could make the engine hard to crank.
Click to expand...

I guess I could but I haven't even considered cylinder damage at this point. Nothing has led me down that path.

It cranked easy/strong at first but after continuing to attempt to fire it up (I am talking attemping to start it like 30-40 times ..... each time cranking for 3-4 seconds at a time), it started to sound less "strong" like it was dying off or losing power.

I think a cylinder issue would have been present the whole time or at least made itself known when the engine was running (knocking, smoking, etc). I haven't dealt with any of that. Once it starts, she runs fine it seems.

In other words, I don't appear to be dealing with something that happend to the motor and now it won't start. Like something seized up or burnt out a ring, etc. That would make the motor hard to crank the next time I tried to start as she may be bound up. She cranks over easily - or did until I think I fried the starter motor.

This has just been a problem that has been present since day 1 and has gotten worse over time. Part of me is leaning towards declining performance of the starter itself but part of me is worried is some other underlying issue (maybe required volts to initiate starting, etc).

Just curious if others have had similar issues and what the culprit was.
 
FICT motors were notorious for carboning up, although moreso the 99-2000 models but this could be a sign of that, did you index your spark plugs?

Could also be electrical, is the engine light blinking any codes? Did you check all the normal stuff like fuel lines and filters?
 
Bryan 2530":979x3o4j said:
FICT motors were notorious for carboning up, although moreso the 99-2000 models but this could be a sign of that, did you index your spark plugs?

Could also be electrical, is the engine light blinking any codes? Did you check all the normal stuff like fuel lines and filters?
Click to expand...

I haven't done anything with the plugs. I plan on getting a complete overhaul/tune up of the motor over the winter (see other thread in this section). The boat is a work in progress so I used it sparingly over the summer. I am making plans to get everything reviewed and baselined (plugs, filters, etc) to get me setup for a yearly maintence program.

But, for shits/giggles, I did pull a couple plugs and didn't see anything off about them. No burt tips, build up, etc. I didn't check gap though.

As for electrical. All visable connections seem fine. The terminal post on the start itself was loose and this was the point of the heat/smoke mentioned in the first post. But even with it being loose, it still cranked strong - just didn't turn over. Either/or - its getting replaced because it needs to be replaced - even if it's not the culprit of my issues.

No engine codes/warning lights. Fuel lines all seem ok. Bulb is full and is charged. Filters APPEAR to be in working order but then again, I am new to this boat thing so I am deferring to an expert when it goes in for the winter.

I have a good bit of experience with car engines (just from a hobby) and while I know car and boat engines are different, I would think a lot of the same basics would apply. And with that, I can't see how it would be filter issue. It doesn't seem like its starving for fuel or anything. It acts like it simply isn't getting that signal to fire when it should. It cranks, cranks, cranks and won't kick over. The cranking is/was strong (before I killed the starter) but it just wasn't getting that spark to fire. Everything up to that point was normal. And once it did fire up, it ran fine after warming up.
 
Brent":3of6qvjy said:
I would pull all plugs and inspect them
Click to expand...

Do you happen to know the proper gap for this motor (assuming plug condition is satisfactory)?

PS - I have the shop/service manual coming as an Xmas gift.
 
Thanks Brent.

As a side note, my father-in-law had his buddy rebuild the starter. Looks like $75 shipped. Doesn't seem too bad at all.

I should have it back this weekend hopefully so I will pull the plugs/check gap, etc and install the new starter all at once. Hopefully that will knock out this gremlin.
 
Also check the voltage while cranking ...

If the battery is poor or if there is resistance in the existing cables or other poor connections, then > 11-volts might not be getting to the computer. On these newer OBs, 2-stroke or 4-stroke, if the voltage "while cranking" drops below a certain point, then they'll crank all day, but the coils will never fire.
 
DaleH":k93xksiz said:
Also check the voltage while cranking ...

If the battery is poor or if there is resistance in the existing cables or other poor connections, then > 11-volts might not be getting to the computer. On these newer OBs, 2-stroke or 4-stroke, if the voltage "while cranking" drops below a certain point, then they'll crank all day, but the coils will never fire.
Click to expand...

I have read this and while I don't THINK this is an issue (new batteries - which doesn't necessarly prove anything), I will check while I am on the boat. Thanks!
 
Hannibal":33oe90n4 said:
Thanks Brent.

As a side note, my father-in-law had his buddy rebuild the starter. Looks like $75 shipped. Doesn't seem too bad at all.

I should have it back this weekend hopefully so I will pull the plugs/check gap, etc and install the new starter all at once. Hopefully that will knock out this gremlin.
Click to expand...

Don't forget to index the plugs properly as well. Should be in the manual. It isn't tough to do but is still a necessity.
 
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