Ethanol Fuel advice

[Cheerios]

I would like to share this information I received from Robin Parker of Parker Boats and one of Yamaha's technical advisors. I had asked as the owner of 2004 Parker with a F225 Yamaha what I should expect, and what concerns I should have with burning ethanol fuel. Robin Parkers reply:

I forwarded your email to our Engineering Dept. The response follows:

I would tell him not to worry about anything as long as he does not use gasoline with more then 10% ethanol.
I would recommend that he speak to his Yamaha dealer concerning fuel additives.

There has been quite a bit of talk (and misinformation) on websites and chat rooms concerning ethanol. We at Parker have not experienced any issues due to ethanol to date.

What we know to be true is the following:
The Yamaha manual states that four-stroke motors can run on a 10% ethanol blend fuel with no problems.
The manufacturer of our fuel tanks tells us that the tanks will not be affected by a blend of up to 10% ethanol.
The fuel lines that we use are built with an internal lining that is designed for use with ethanol blended fuels.
The 10% ethanol is fairly common and has been used for years by fuel companies to raise octane and to act as an oxygenator. Due to the findings on the oxygenator “MTBE”, ethanol will be finding its way in to gasoline much more often than before.

Yamaha’s Technician was also very helpful and advised me that I should continue to use Ring Free Additives. I should add gas stabilizer, the same as we use for winter storage and most impotently I should use the new Yamaha Ten Micron water separator filter. This he recommends changing every 50 hours. Yamaha’s Technician also suggested changing the gas filter at the engine because of the breakdown of deposits in the tanks.

Being not mechanically inclined I think I will follow their advice. I hope this helps those who have concerns.

Cheerios

 

[cbigma]

Thanks for sharing this with us Cheerios.

I'm glad we now have a position from the factory about the fuel storage and delivery system components that they use. Changing the fuel filter every 50 hours - that's the first "metric" I've heard of from Yamaha. Before this it was always "at least once a season" or "regularly" . Now we have some guidelines in the form of X-gallons or X-hours.

Of course we should all be vigilant against plain old water and crud that could come into our systems from the gas docks regardless of whether ethanol is involved or not.

Thanks again for posting this information.

 

[susqking]

My Yamaha mechanic told me the motors will be fine too. He did say he would recommend changing the water filter separator (10 Micron) every 30 hours this season just in case crap comes out of the tank. Then next year go back to once or twice next year. I trust my mechanic 100%. Filters are $15 each

 

[Bryan 2530]

Problem is most gas is going to be 15% Ethanol this year.

 

[DaleH]

I would tell him not to worry about anything as long as he does not use gasoline with more then 10% ethanol.

Problem is … E10 ethanol formulated fuels can hold 27 times the amount of water in suspension in it than fuel formulated with MTBE. That's huge! Ethanol E10 fuel can hold 4 teaspoons of water in suspension per gallon, while MTBE fuel could only hold 15% of 1 teaspoon of water in suspension.

Only after the amount of water in the E10 fuel exceeds that ratio will it phase separate. When/if that happens, the ethanol and water separate into one layer and the remaining fuel (with hardly any octane) separates as another layer. Some say your boat won’t run on that bad gas … but no matter, as it will be floating on the ethanol/water layer.

I have a friend with a new boat, new gas tank, new Racor f/w separator filter and he keeps pulling water out of the E10 fuel everytime he goes to use the boat. Right now he’s draining the filter before every run and a few times he has shutdown due to water clogging the filter.

LESSON: Get a “drainable” (for OBs anyway) Racor fuel/water separator filter on board and check it before and during each and every run … ‘til you feel comfortable with this change.

 

[Bryan 2530]

Well said. I don't see how the Yamaha filters are going to keep up without a bottom drain. :?:

 

[Themis]

Cheerios,

I sent Robin the same request before I saw your message. It took a bit, but she got back to me with the exact same reply as what you posted, like its a canned answer. They must be getting lots of these same questions lobbed into them.

 

[DaleH]

FYI ... a friend with a new Yam 4-stroke 225hp or 250hp (I forget which!) who can't keep the motor running .. failed to drain the VST tank under the cowling. That was probably full of fuel loaded with water and was drowning the injectors.

Some think that people who don't use their boats frequently might need to drain this tank before use, if its been a while. The manual says to drain this during the off-season.

 

[Ranger Tim]

I had never, I repeat NEVER accumulated any water in the bowl of the filter under the cowl. We took a four day excursion around the bay and burned approximately 80 gallons of new fuel with 10% ethanol. After the trip I brought her home and did a rinse under the cowling and noticed the red ring had floated 3/4 of the way up the bowl. I imagine my bilge mounted separator filter is full also.

I am replacing with the stainless base and Racor assembly. This will be a definite pre-float system check from now on. This is a genuine problem that must be dealt with. Monitor your own fuel system and find out how it reacts, then take the necessary preventative measures. And do it NOW!!!

There will be quite a bit of misinformation about these new formulations circulating around the web, so please be careful not to go running around like chicken little. Just take care of the problem before it causes any heartache.

 

[Parker23]

Here is a 20002 OX66 2000hp VST filter that was changed 2 months prior it clogged and the 10 micron water seperator was fine no water or sediment also ran stabilizer in tank. Good Luck!

 

[Parker23]

Picture did not come out clear the shiney area is where i wiped it with my finger.

 

[Parker23]

bump

 

[TomS]

RangerTim,

Do you remember how much of the 'old' gas you had in the tank when you filled up with the new Ethanol?

-- Tom

 

[Parker23]

I do not know had first problem late August 2005 changed vst filter and the 10 micron then had it happen again Oct. 2005 both times the 10 micron water seperator was fine no water or debri but gas looked like chicken soup broth.

 

[Porkchunker]

I had never, I repeat NEVER accumulated any water in the bowl of the filter under the cowl. We took a four day excursion around the bay and burned approximately 80 gallons of new fuel with 10% ethanol. After the trip I brought her home and did a rinse under the cowling and noticed the red ring had floated 3/4 of the way up the bowl. I imagine my bilge mounted separator filter is full also...

I've replaced the OEM filters in the bilge with Racor 10 micron with the clear bowl with a drain. Since I'm still on the last fill-up with MBTE (not E10), I haven't yet encountered the problem. But you can bet your sweet bippy that I'll be checking the bowls in the bilge and the red rings under the cowls of my two F115s before every trip. Both are easy to drain.

The little Porkchunker (link to woodie in my signature) has never had anything more than the screens in the fuel pump on the side of the Johnson motors. Guess I'll be adding a Racor 10 micron with clear bowl to her also.