O.K. now it’s running terrible!

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TopShot25

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My starboard engine was idling ruff, now it’s running so bad I had to return on one engine.

I thought everything pointed to the fuel system so I was planning on addressing the VST filter after my vacation. I had a 4 day trip to Catalina planned with a buddy. During my pre-trip inspection I noticed a little rust on the outside of my Racor fuel filter for the starboard engine. This bothered me because I keep my bilge pretty clean and I’m in there all the time. I have never seen any rust or anything like that before. I had a little extra time so I decided to change the fuel filters. This is the first time I’ve changed the filter since I changed over to the Racor’s. I was very surprised to find rust inside on the top of the filter.
110717DSC0165310595-med.jpg

I did not find any water, but of course I did find the white power from the ethanol. So now I’m thinking that the rust particles may be part of my engine problem. So It’s time to pull the VST off to check and clean. By the way a great tutorial if anyone’s interested
http://www.thehulltruth.com/shipyard-is ... ement.html
Anyway after all the info I’ve read on the VST filter, and how often some people have to clean them, I expected to find mine caked up with crud which seems to be the norm. Well mine was perfectly clean I did not find one speck of anything other than fuel in the VST tank. This, although making me happy that the Chevron fuel I run does seem to keep everything clean, did not get me closer to my problem.

Now my engine is idling ruff, vibrating badly and will not hold RPM’s with the port engine. The engine seemed to be running fine except for the ruff idle. At cruising speeds it ran fine, then on the way home it started vibrating and I decided to shut it down. Once home I ran it to clean the saltwater out of it and it started fine but of course ran a little ruff. So here I am trying to figure it out. If I can’t figure it out soon, I am going to have to buy the diagnostic software and I guess a few Yamaha tools. I was going to buy that stuff anyway, I’ve just put it off because money is a little tight these days.
 
John,

I'm not a chemical engineer, but that rust would have me concerned about water contamination right off the bat. I don't believe gasoline would make any metal rust, but water, well that's a different story. I believe that area that's rusted is pretty much submerged under raw gasoline 100% of the time. That fact that's it's rusted leads me to believe you got a good dose of water coming into it, and possibly even some air ? ? ?.
What's that other part? Is that the lower portion that unscrews from the filter itself?
What's in the bottom of it, looks almost like bacon grease!! :shock:
Looking forward to seeing opinions of others and I hope you get this straightened out pretty quickly.

Tim
 
Looks like phase separation to me but I don't think the horndog sits around much, you running startron?
 
Tim, the rust is what bothers me too. I don't think it made it past the filter as the VST was very clean.

Bryan, never added any additives and you're right the horndog does not sit much. More than I'd like, but not much. I'm trying to figure this out myself as I just had a couple of big bills and money is a little short. I'm thinking it has to be fairly simple as it was very sudden. I just need to figure out how to test all this stuff. The problem is you need the test equipment on most things these days. I was planning on starting to collect the Yamaha test equipment and tools, I just haven't got around to it yet. I guess it will be soon now. It's really an investment because I plan on having these engines for quite awhile. It's just my timing that sucks right now. Lobster season is near and I have a bunch of friends that are expecting to go out soon.
 
Judging by your signature, these are 4 strokes?
Reason I ask is I have a few OX66 test harnesses I got from Andy at SIM including
the diagnostic winky blinky tool I can lend to you.

Assuming they are 4 strokes, and seeing the pics of your Racor, I'd focus on the fuel avenue first and thoroughly. Forget diagnostic tools for now. They won't point you toward dirty fuel. You need to make sure she is getting good, clean fuel first to rule that out. How old is that Racor? I've never seen one rusted like that. The rust around the ring I see frequently, but never inside. When you dumped it, what did the fuel look like?
Have you tried running the problem engine off of a small, portable fuel tank? (After you've made sure the engine filters are clean) ?
 
Doesn't your boat pull both engines off one tank? Seems to me if it was bad fuel, both engines would be running rough.

Did you pull the other racor apart? Might want to see if the white goo is in there too, could be bad gas from the fuel dock as Brent suggested.
 
I' a carpenter not a mechanic. I feel your pain though. I dealt with this all of June. Turned out to be dirty fuel injectors. Good luck to you.
 
Guys thanks for your input,
I did pull the other Racor off and there was no rust but it did have the white ethanol residue buildup. My Racor’s have 300 hours on them. I run nothing but Chevron gas from the same land based station and I have had great luck with it. I had a GMC mini-van with 311,000 miles on the original engine and tranny and never ever had an injector problem. I never even cleaned them. Both engines run off the same tank and the other one runs great. My first thought was fuel also except for the facts that one engine runs great and the fuel filters seem to be containing all the contaminants. The filter on the engine and the VST are clean which leads me to believe it may be a fuel pump or sensor. I would think if it were an injector I would have had some kind of dirt on my VST filter. (that’s just me guessing) I think I need to get the tool, (gauge) to check the fuel rail pressure to find out about the fuel pumps. I haven’t tried swapping anything, but I do have two engines and I could if I narrow it down to something.

Parkerman what were your symptoms when you had the injector problems?

Tim what kind of info do you get from the diagnostic software? I have been planning on getting that anyway. Does it check the sensors and stuff like that? Now that you have it do you think it’s worth it?
 
hi john
the yds (software) is great and worth getting,it will give you what you need,once you learn to use it
 
John,

I have an older Yam, 225 OX66 so that diag tool is different than what you need.
Mine is just a blinking light, blinks a code, match it up with the manual and you have your problem. The YDS for your engine is MUCH more in-depth, I believe it even will store codes (the engine that is). My diag lamp has to be hooked up to the engine at the time it's giving the symptom (won't store any error codes).
 
TimC2520":25cf92lq said:
I'm not a chemical engineer, but that rust would have me concerned about water contamination right off the bat.
I don't believe gasoline would make any metal rust, but water, well that's a different story.
Click to expand...

That was my thought when I first saw that photo.
Gasoline won't make ferrous metal rust, but water will.
My guess is that you somehow got a dose of water in your fuel (but I'm not a chemical engineer either).
 
I'm no Chem Engr either and while I didn't sleep @ Holiday Inn last night ... I'd opine that was caused by the filter/fuel line draining and the breakdown of the remaining fuel in the cartridge oxidized and caused the rust? Remember, today's fuel is crap and breaks down FAST! It's minicule in the light of things and if you're not draining water out of the filter everytime, I wouldn't worry about it. Me? I always put a thin coating of that blue-colored waterproof synthetic grease on that part of the cartridge.

That WOOSH you sometimes here when opening a car's gas fill (that are NON-vented, as compared to a boat's fill that is vented) is a by-product of the fuel breaking down.

I'd send that picture to Racor's technical helpline and see what they say.
 
There is shortage of the YDS software and cables. If you need it soon contact Andy at SIM for the latest ordering details. I dont know why, maybe a new version is in the works. The software does not run on 64bit Windows 7 or 64 bit Vista. It runs fine on XP and has small hard drive and RAM footprint.

I am not a chemical engineer either but here is a chemistry joke

Chemistry teacher asks student what is the name for H2SO4.
Student does not know and says, I just had it on the tip of my tongue
Teacher says Well spit it out b/c its sulfuric acid
 
Thanks for the software tip Brent. I need to get a few other things from Andy also so I will see what I can find out. My laptop is running windows 7 so I may be stuck with bad timing again :( :?
 
m2cw is you dont need it now
I would buy a shop manual if you dont have one. Andy sells Yamaha and Clymer costs less and well illustrated. I bought both. What is the condition of the under the front cowling fuel filter? I would use some type of fuel additive either Yamaha or after market. It is inexpensive when used according the directions. Does your Racor have a water cup with a drain?
see
http://www.parker.com/portal/site/PARKE ... RIES&Wtky=

good luck
 
I have the Yamaha shop manual. I didn’t know they even had a Clymer, I was just talking with my son the other day and telling him I wish they did. The Yamaha manual doesn’t really cover everything like the average guy needs to know. Yes my Racor is a filter/water separator. My front filter is clean as can be.

See this is what I don’t understand, everyone talks about additives and then there is all this talk about dirty filters and having to change them all the time. My engines have ran perfect, the plugs have always been clean and I mean cleaner than any engine I have ever owned. There wasn’t a speck of dirt or anything in the VST and I don’t run any additives, just straight Chevron gas. I’d use additives if I thought it would do anything that I’m not already doing.
 
I have a Clymer manual which covers several models for my 02 Yam 225hp HPDI 4 stroke and paid $32.
Since you have good quality gas and use the boat frequently then additives are not needed.
I still cant explain the rust. Do you have dual fuel tank pickups and each one goes to a separate Racor filter?
 
I’m not exactly sure how the pick-ups work in the tank. Two separate connections on the fuel tank and each fuel line with its own filter. This is another reason I think it’s more likely a sensor or something, both engines run off the same tank so fuel issues would be shared for the most part. Or it would definitely be telling me to expect the same on the other engine very soon.

My guess on the rust is pretty close to Dale’s. I think pretty much all boats have some water/moister in the fuel and from what I’ve heard the ethanol seems to bond and carry the water through the system. When the boat sits for any time I think you may get a little space at the top to those filters and the moister may have then been able to do its dirty work.
 
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