Parker 2320 EC (aka "2330") question

[SBH2OMan]

Hello all,

first post here, and like many first-timers, I have been eyeing Parkers for a while, but didn't think I'd be able to get one as my first "real" boat... I have found an older 2320EC ('extended cabin") and I have a few questions. My apologies if these have been answered elsewhere - if there is a FAQ or sticky thread somewhere, please point me to the URL and accept my apology.

The questions:

I think all the 2320/2330 boats have always been "deep vee" hulls, is that true?

It is mounted with a Yamaha 250 OX66 on a bracket. What sort of fuel burn rates should I expect at cruise, troll, WOT?

How does the cockpit space on this boat compare to a 2120 SC? I have fished and dove on a friend's 2120 and found it good for two and adequate for three. I can't tell by standing on it whether the 2320EC has the same deck space or more (it seems like more because of the engine being mounted on a bracket)

Does the 23' Parker deep vee handle better with the bracketed engine, or worse? I know some boats will tend to "porpoise" more when the engine is moved back, and on some others, the opposite is true.

Is there anything in particular I should look for on this 1993? IT was re-powered in 2005. It has been slipped for at least three or four years, but the hull looks very well maintained, and the deck and roof are not excessively oxidized.

Thanks in advance! I'm sure your answers will lead to more questions!

-Brent

 

[Megabyte]

I think all the 2320/2330 boats have always been "deep vee" hulls, is that true?

It is mounted with a Yamaha 250 OX66 on a bracket. What sort of fuel burn rates should I expect at cruise, troll, WOT?

How does the cockpit space on this boat compare to a 2120 SC? I have fished and dove on a friend's 2120 and found it good for two and adequate for three. I can't tell by standing on it whether the 2320EC has the same deck space or more (it seems like more because of the engine being mounted on a bracket)

Does the 23' Parker deep vee handle better with the bracketed engine, or worse? I know some boats will tend to "porpoise" more when the engine is moved back, and on some others, the opposite is true.

The 2320 is a deep vee.
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boat_l ... ?boatid=14

My 225 OX66 burns about 13 to 14 gph at 4200 rpm which is about 26 to 27 kts depending on the sea state.

If a boat is proposing, you need to add more down tab. Proposing is controllable by the captain.

The 2330EC is a rare find and is highly sought after. Buy it quickly as it will not be on the market for long.

 

[SBH2OMan]

The 2320 is a deep vee.
http://www.parkerboats.net/pages/boat_l ... ?boatid=14

My 225 OX66 burns about 13 to 14 gph at 4200 rpm which is about 26 to 27 kts depending on the sea state.

If a boat is proposing, you need to add more down tab. Proposing is controllable by the captain.

The 2330EC is a rare find and is highly sought after. Buy it quickly as it will not be on the market for long.

Thanks - I wasn't sure if these older "EC" hulls were the same as the current run of 23's.

Interestingly, it has been listed on and off several times since 2007, but the price has come down quite dramatically. There is nothing "wrong" with it that is obvious other than it sits in a slip and has no trailer. I'm probably going to be making an offer on it Tuesday, if all the stars align.

 

[Megabyte]

Best way to be sure is to get the hull identification number off the transom and call the factory.
They will be able to tell you almost anything you need to know about that hull.

 

[SBH2OMan]

Thanks all. I just put an offer in last night. We'll see what happens.

 

[DaleH]

I doubt any Parker could be driven fast enough to porpise ...

The only way my mod-V hull would ever exceed 45mph ... would be on the highway :roll: !

 

[Megabyte]

I doubt any Parker could be driven fast enough to porpise ...

Mine can porpoise in flat water if she is firewalled.
A little tab takes care of it though.

My fastest so far was a week ago coming back in from fishing.
34.6 kts according to the GPS, and that is on an end of season bottom!

But Dale is right. These things aren't really speedsters. 8)

 

[Megabyte]

I just put an offer in last night. We'll see what happens.

Good luck!

 

[Brent]

I have a 94 2320 EC with an Armstrong bracket and the cockpit is roughly 80" wide across by 81" front to back)and no burn numbers but I know the complete fuel system from the fuel tank to the fuel injectors.
Is it a buyer's market and sometimes the seller doesn't realize this fact or cant part with the selling it even when listed.

Good luck

 

[SBH2OMan]

... but I know the complete fuel system from the fuel tank to the fuel injectors.

Brent,

I'm guessing you know the fuel system so well because you had to replace it all? Honestly that is my second biggest fear about buying a boat of this vintage - the chance of the fuel tank being bad... It is aluminum and lookin inside the rear pie tin hatch, it looks like there is lot of white powder on top of the tank (aluminum oxidation) but not sure if a good survey will be able to tell me what sort of shape the tank is in...

I did notice that it is very nearly empty of fuel, which in a boat stored on the water is probably not a good thing...

BTW, my name is also Brent.

 

[Brent]

Hi Brent
So far it is runs fine after the injectors were serviced on a 02 225 4 stroke,
The tank is fine and doesn't leak. I did replace the low pressure fuel pump and replaced all filters (Racor, front under cowling, f shaped and filter inside VST along with new nylon fuel pickup tubes, right angle elbows, ASV and fuel lines b/c the tank has 2 pickups
Andy at SIM Yamaha has an very informative tutorial of the VST filters plus search CP site for tips. At least my gas was ok and I didn't pump it out. I tested the high pressure pump inside the VST with a fuel pressure guage, 43psi with key on then steady at 38 psi with key on and motor running. So I saved $250 not needing a new pne and needle and float assembly is ok

 

[SBH2OMan]

Update and some questions:

We took the 2320EC out yesterday for what I suppose one would consider a "sea trial" (though as we were heading back I had to turn to the broker and insist that I actually get a chance to drive the boat). We turned back around and headed out again for another 20 minutes or so, but I had mechanic and surveyor on board, so I didn't want to take up too much more time. Unfortunately, the broker did not ensure that the electronics were on the boat, so we ran the boat with no plotter or fish finder (I could not verify operation).

Loved the handling! She trimmed out very nicely using the tabs and the tilt/trim on the motor. Once underway, I was amazed at the smooth quiet operation of the motor (from the cabin). Even with 5 guys on board and 1/2 tank of fuel, she got up on plane and moved along at 19 to 25 kts without too much trouble (I had to look at my iPhone GPS while driving to see the speed). Not sure what the top speed was, but it seemed like the max we hit was around 25 kts. Sea condition was pretty nice - long period 2-4 footers with occasional larger sets.

But, speaking of the motor, some problems became immediately apparent. On WOT she would get up to 5,500 RPMs (once getting to about 5,700) and then the analog GPH meter would peg all the way to the right (25+ gph) and RPMs would begin falling away and stay at about 4800. Easing back off the throttle, she would regain RPMS and climb back up again. This could be repeated each time. (Also, the shifter was sticky - I'm assuming that is a simple cable replacement?)

GPH never read better than maybe 15 or 16 GPH, and spent most of its time around 20 gph. This is a single 250 OX66 motor, btw. So now I have big concerns about fuel/oil consumption... I'm guessing that the O2 sensor is pretty fouled (I don't think this boat has been well maintained, but it hasn't been abused either) and this might be causing excessive fuel burn.

That being said, once it was hauled out and the mechanical inspection conducted on the engine, it was very apparent that the lower unit oil had not been changed in a LOOOONG time (you could smell the burned hydrocarbon smell from 50' away). No metal flakes in the oil, though. Sierra fuel filter was NOT a 10 micron unit, which may have contributed to the WOT performance problem by clogging the internal fuel filters.

Compression was good - within 10 psi of spec for all the cylinders. VST filter *looked* reasonably clean from the outside. Neutral idle speed was too high - around 1,500 RPMS, which made shifting VERY balky and resulted in a loud THUNK when moving in and out of gear. Running at idle was 1,000 rpms - again probably too high, and the engine vibrated a bit - more than it should, I think. I'm wondering if maybe the prop shaft might be slightly bent - the prop is a stainless PowerTech OFS3 15 x 15 and looks to be in good shape. The anti-cav plate on the lower unit has a dime-sized chunk of metal missing from it, and is slightly bent, which makes me wonder if the prop struck something at one point and that might be the reason for the low-RPM vibrations due to a wobble in the prop shaft/spindle...

The hull is sound - no soft spots, and structurally "very solid" according to the surveyor. We opened the engine bracket and found no water inside. The bottom has some mild blistering which you could see when looking carefully at an extreme angle, but none were soft - just cosmetic. No "vinegar" smell. Surveyor was not the least bit concerned, and told me that once the boat was stored on a trailer instead of the water, the blisters would likely disappear completely. (Once that happens, I plan to sand the bottom paint and refinish with a smooth non-ablative paint)

Expecting a full report from the mechanic today, along with receipts showing maintenance history (including powerhead replacement in 2005 and ECM replacement in 2006). Those will be the determinants of whether I follow through on the deal. (estimated cost to fix the WOT performance problem + verification of engine history).

Any comments or suggestions are welcome! Pictures (and some movie clips) of the haul-out are here:
http://gallery.me.com/bpchristensen#100616

 

[TunaJoe]

Sounds like there are a few minor problems, but hopefully none are a deal breaker.

Curious, what did the boat weigh while on the lift?

Brent, you going to ask them to "sharpen the pencil" (drop the price) a bit based on your findings?

 

[SBH2OMan]

Sounds like there are a few minor problems, but hopefully none are a deal breaker.

Curious, what did the boat weigh while on the lift?

Brent, you going to ask them to "sharpen the pencil" (drop the price) a bit based on your findings?

Unfortunately, the analog dials on the lift hardly budged (boat too light) - The operator told me that if the boat didn't weigh at least 10,000 lbs, it didn't really accurately register. :-(

As to pencil sharpening, I think I broke off the tip on the last round of negotiations... This will be a "do it or not" kind of deal. If I walk away, it will be $800 lighter in the wallet after paying for haul-out, survey, and inspections, but that is better than buying a boat that collapses in my hands.

Interestingly, I called the marina in New Jersey that rebuilt the power head back in October 2004. The woman distinctly remembered the owner (who was the owner prior to the current owner). Her comments about the boat/motor didn't make me fee real warm and fuzzy inside (I get the feeling that a lot of deferred/ignored maintenance led to the replacement of the powerhead with a rebuild)... But that was 6 years ago, so who knows.... I sure wish I had a crystal ball...

 

[Megabyte]

It does sound like the O2 sensor is either toast, or needs a serious cleaning.
The other issues you mentioned, the high idle, the decreasing RPM's, fuel burn, LU lube... all sound like either deferred maintenance, or just a clueless owner.
Many people treat their boats like they do their cars. Gas it and go. We know that isn't correct for a boat motor operated in a marine environment.

Still, the issues you found are shockingly similar to what I found when I bought my boat (1997 225 hp OX66), less the PH replacement.
The good news is that everything you mentioned is easily fix-able.
The other good news is that the OX66 series motors are extremely tough, which is a good thing for one that hasen't had the best care.

When I bought my boat, the O2 sensor was toast, she was full of carbon and salt, and the low pressure fuel pumps were shot.
Oh... and the LU looked like a milkshake. That part was easily diagnosed and fixed right away.
When the yard changed the LU oil, they put the bottom plug in the top, and the top in the bottom... and they are NOT interchangeable.

Once that was fixed, my dealer replaced the O2 sensor, removed the PH and dug all of the salt out of her, and then she went on a steady diet of Ringfree, StarTron, and Stabil.
A diet she still gets today at EVERY fill-up.

That was in 2003...
Today, that same motor with a bit of care (including Penzoil full synthetic oil), ran 34.6 kts at WOT (5100 rpm) on the way back in from a recent fishing trip.
That was with 1/2 tank of fuel, 2 people aboard, and all of my safety and fishing gear on board.
Having a 1997 225 hp OX66 push almost 8000#'s of boat with an end of season bottom on her, makes me smile.

From what you've told us, I'd negotiate the price with the known issues in mind and love her to death.

Good luck with whatever you decide.

 

[SBH2OMan]

Megabyte, thanks for your comments. I'me feeling far more encouraged.

Here is the actual mechanic's report, which I just received; interestingly, he doesn't point to the O2 sensor as the possible culprit, though a Google search and reading various forums seems to indicate that this would be a likely cause...

ENGINE: model: Yamaha S250TXRX
Hours: 925.5
Serial: 61A X 102571

Sea Trial:

Travel to boat – outboard starts easily; no excessive smoke. Vibration in gear 1500-2000 rpm. Engine achieved 5700 rpm trimmed out. After a few minutes WOT (wide open throttle) lost rpm; could be fuel restriction. Throttle sticking at idle.

Engine Survey:
Remove spark plugs; perform compression test: 1)105psi, 2)96psi, 3)104psi, 4)93psi, 5)98psi, 6)94psi. check spark – good.

Slight seepage at cylinder head and water jacket gaskets – normal.
Drain gear lube, burnt. Pressure and vacuum test – okay. Fill with fresh gear lube.
Inspect propeller, no visible signs of damage; recommend having propeller checked and propeller shaft.
Main and remote oil tanks low. Need to fill remote oil tank to make sure main tank is being filled. Also test oil lights on tach.
Boat fuel water separator filter 21 micron, Yamaha recommends minimum 10 micron filter. Engine filter appears – okay.
All control cables appear to be in good condition and secure. Idle sticking may be potentiometer. Linkage is tight and resting at stops.
Engine wiring clean and secure.
Small chunk missing on cavitation plate – port side.
Outboard zincs need to be replaced.

Engine achieved good WOT (wide open throttle) RPM prior to rpm loss problem. Need to isolate problem with proper tools. If problem is high pressure pump estimate $1000.00 - $1200.00. If restriction or low pressure pumps price is less.

Recommend complete servicing and water pump if not done in past 3 years. Test of oil system and warning system.

Does that compression seem low? I don't know these motors, but I know anytime I see compression numbers below 120 or so on automotive engines, I run for the hills, even when they are all "even" (it just means the whole thing is "evenly" worn out...

It looks like boat needs a full tune-up ($325) plus water pump ($250) and "diagnosis" of the WOT running problem, which sounds like could cost me over $1,000. I figured $1,000 in total "maintenance catch-Up" for this purchase, and it sounds like my budget might be a bit short.

I'm very mechanically inclined (I've rebuilt car engines) but now NOTHING about outboard motors. Not sure how much of this is prudent to do on my own vs. paying a shop to "do it right"..

 

[Megabyte]

Can't comment on the compression numbers, but if the motor has never seen Ringfree, it could be that you have some carbon fouling of the ring lands and grooves.
A good de-carbon and judicious use of fuel amendments could bring those numbers back up once the carbon gets cleaned out.

Whether you do it, or you initially have a Yamaha mechanic do it, these are the things I'd service:

1.) perform a full "Dunk style" de-carbon, then add fuel amendments to your fuel.
2.) replace waterpump, t-stats, and poppit valve.
3.) fill the oil tank with Penzoil full synthetic.
4.) replace the low pressure fuel pumps.
5.) replace the fuel bulb and consider checking the fuel pickup and anti-siphon valve for fuel restrictions.
6.) replace the 21 micron fuel/water separator with a 10 micron (blue) Yamaha or (white) Racor unit.
7.) set the high idle to factory specs (which I think is 700 rpm in gear, but verify that with SIM or your mechanic).
8.) check the prop shaft run-out with a dial indicator (for piece of mind).
9.) service or replace the VST filter.
10.) give the block a good SaltAway treatment and flush her well.

Many of these things you can do yourself with very little effort. Some items might need to be done by your mechanic.
One thing that I discovered with my motor was that once I started a regimen of Ringfree, StarTron, and Stabil, the motor ran better the more I used it.
Some people disagree with that fuel amendment regimen, and thats OK. I can only tell what has worked for me.

Good luck!

 

[DaleH]

Megabyte, thanks for your comments. I'm feeling far more encouraged.

Here is the actual mechanic's report ...

Engine Survey:
Remove spark plugs; perform compression test: 1)105psi, 2)96psi, 3)104psi, 4)93psi, 5)98psi, 6)94psi. check spark – good.

Does that compression seem low?

Fact: There are NO OEM specs as to where comp #s should be, as there's too much variation in gauges. That said, while at first glance the #s seem lower, the 3 on each bank (#1, 3, & 5 average 102.3), so all are < 5% from each other, with the typical value sought no more than 10% variation. For the other bank (#2, 4, & 6 average 94.3, < 2% variation), plus the variation from the left to the right bank is ~5%.

Nothing scares me there 'per se', IF you can get if corrected for not more than estimated, but I still wouldn’t offer top dollar for it, not because of its present condition, but because the powerhead was rebuilt. OB blocks differ from car blocks in mfg process (blind hole for piston, so the boring tool needs to come back out the way it when in) and historically, no OB rebuild ever gives the same HP or fuel efficiency that a new or even older & well-used motor will.

I’d use that report (strike out/redact the comp values, as YOU paid for them, do NOT give the Seller your survey ypu paid goood $$ for) and just give a general overall report in your own words to the Seller to strike a bargain. Remember, a solid, good value boat without a usable motor is worth FAR LESS than the value you’ll pay for this rig. To me, you’ll have to factor in replacing the OB some day. …

 

[Megabyte]

To me, you’ll have to factor in replacing the OB some day. …

That's why I keep telling my ride... "good girl, good girl!"
Because even though I'd LOVE a new Yamaha Offshore 300, the price tag shocks me. :shock:

Truth is... if you pay $25k for a boat and then re-power with a $20k motor, you do not now have a $45k boat.
What you have is a $25k boat with a new motor.
Once you come to terms with that, you take good care of what you've got. :wink:

 

[SBH2OMan]

FWIW, the current offer on the table is $18,000. Seller started at $27,000 (no trailer) and dropped to $19,995 last month. I offered $16,500 and we went back and forth and landed at $18,000. I have located a trailer for a good price ($3k for a 2005 Magic Tilt trailer that has bunks set up for a Parker 2320, disc brakes on all four wheels). Broker says seller won't go any lower. Electronics are a Raymarine RC435 chartplotter and Raymarine DS600x Fish Finder with bronze through-hull transducer. No radar, no kicker. The boat originally came from New Jersey and was shipped to California about 5 years ago.