Endless Second Station Questions

[Ranger Tim]

I have purchased a pair of Twin SR controls from eBay and I am waiting for them to arrive. I plan on a bulkhead second station "a la Dale", simple and easy. I am at a loss as far as finding info - I live 100 miles inland and the boat places nearby are a dearth of information. I plan on documenting the entire install and set up for inclusion on the site, just in case someone else is thinking about the same thing. Still working on the Seastar helm purchase, but I percieve it to be a relatively simple install and I am less concerned with it. So here comes round one of questions:

1) Which type of Morse cables are going to yield the smoothest operation with the least amount of drag? My current Yamaha controls are stiff and I don't want to make it worse.

2) Do I want to use a series or parallel cable configuration? I figured to run from the cabin set out to the bulkhead set then to the motor (series).

3) Is there any special hardware that I need to connect the 33C type cables to my F150?

4) Is there any critical step I might screw up when separating out the control wires for the ignition, kill, and tilt switches from the existing control? I think I will be able to successfully parallel these for a second set at the bulkhead.

5) Would any of you guys be willing to coach me via PM's or email? This can't be that difficult, it's just hard to figure out without any parts to examine and play with. Trouble is, I need to buy them first!

I will not be sorry to see the old control go away. I have always had a really hard time regulating speed, especially trolling.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Megabyte]

Tim, I believe that Dale documented his bulkhead rear station install, but it might have been posted on another site before CP launched.

I don't have a bulkhead on my boat, so I went the stand-alone cockpit route which is the more common rear station type in use in my area.

I had my dealer do the install during my winter layup and I either supplied them with the parts, or I specified exactly what I wanted ahead of time in writing.

For cables, I specified Teleflex Morse Xtreme cables, which were suggested by forum member Warthog5.
http://www.classicmako.com/projects/xshark/
They are the same cables that he used on his X-Shark project, so I know they are top shelf items.

Not sure if any of this helps you, but I will be looking forward to your documented installation post. :wink:

 

[DaleH]

The parts list has been fairly documented and is at the end of this post.

Still working on the Seastar helm purchase, but I perceive it to be a relatively simple install.

Reference the HF5501 Fitting schematic below. NOTE: You need to determine by your specific setup which helm will be mounted higher in a vertical plane than the other. Parker uses many different dash versions and on my setup, my Main helm was higher than the auxiliary or 2nd helm, so I had to ‘reverse’ the plumbing for the compensation (vent) line.

Check your setup first. Also buy the Seastar 2nd station kit. That 3rd line (compensation/vent line) goes from the bottom port of the “higher” helm to the top port of the “lower” helm. The upper helm in the system also gets the venting plug, the lower helm gets the non-venting plug.

Be careful attaching the fittings to the Seastar helms, they are only white/pot metal … if you torque the fittings too tight you can break the helm body. Tighten and test, if leaks , go a pinch tighter … know your own strength!

1) Which type of Morse cables are going to yield the smoothest operation with the least amount of drag? My current Yamaha controls are stiff and I don't want to make it worse.

Teleflex Xtreme 3300 series are pisser! They are sooooooooooooooooooooooooooo smooth that you will need to tighten up the tension control on the control levers.

2) Do I want to use a series or parallel cable configuration? I figured to run from the cabin set out to the bulkhead set then to the motor (series).

Like shown, keep your existing OB hydraulic cables to the main helm in the cabin and plumb other new cables back to the 2nd helm. Measure twice! Too short sucks … ask me how I know … .?

3) Is there any special hardware that I need to connect the 33C type cables to my F150?

Nope, Yamaha motors use the existing thread configurations that the Xtreme cables come with.

4) Is there any critical step I might screw up when separating out the control wires for the ignition, kill, and tilt switches from the existing control?

Not really, the OEM manual will help identify the correct wire colors. The start connects the 2 “M” or magneto wires (on OMC ignitions). The kill simply grounds out the ignition hot wire. Trim & tilt are easy - 3 wires, red, blue and green. Blue is “sky” or UP, green is “grass” or DOWN, and red is common. You will need a tilt/trim control. I bought the Teleflex one that goes on your helm like a turn-signal stick mounts behind a car steering wheel. Bought that on eBay too, $20 for a $40-$50 part.

5 Would any of you guys be willing to coach me via PM's or email?

Sure … just PM’d you and attached the Morse Twin-SR user manual.

Your best prices on-line for the parts needed would most likely be from www.surplusunlimited.com (control or Seastar cables) or www.go2marine.com for Morse accessories.

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Here's my previously posted info ...

Over the past year (2004) I've been accumulating the parts to add a 2nd helm with steering and controls. I made out really well on eBay, buying a new 1.7 Seastar helm for just over $200 and 2 used Morse Twin-SR with stainless steel covers for $80 for the pair - delivered, and they go for $260 each.

I made the control box out of teak and mahogany and finished it in Cetol marine "light", with their gloss overcoat, to match the rest of my brightwork. As you can see, it's all bunged together so there are no visible screws showing. The bottom center cover on the box is also removable for service and it too has no hardware showing. The SS cover on the Twin-SR cover removes too and all control fine adjustments are done from there.

The Teleflex Xtreme cables are incredible, the control effort is literally 1/4 that of standard OB controls. I actually tightened up the "brakes" on the Morse controls to have a bit of effort.

Adding the steering was the easy part. The controls were a bit more difficult in getting all slack out of the lines so the 2 handles move together.

It cost me about $850 total to install myself. This was my parts breakdown:
* Helm pump, found new on eBay (new) = $220
* 13" steering wheel with powerknob = $50
* Hydraulic hoses, 2nd station kit, and fittings = $240
* 2 newer Morse Twin SR controls including shipping = $80
* All new T'flex Xtreme control cables & attachments = $200
* Custom teak/mahogany control box to mount it all = $50
* 4 tubes hydraulic fluid, Pwer Tech mil-spec 5606 stuff from Wally-World (SAME as $16 Teleflex stuff) @ $0.50 per tube on sale = $2 (usually $2/tube)
* Labor = the love of my life, working on boats = $0

Oops ... in retrospect, I thinkI left out that you will also need a ~$35 Morse SR neutral-start-safety switch, put this on the main helm SR control.

 

[Ranger Tim]

Thanks! I'll be in touch Dale. This is going to be a fairly lengthy process due to work demands, but I hope to have it done by striper trolling season.

 

[Megabyte]

Hey Tim... Are you talking about the fall, or the spring trolling season?

 

[Ranger Tim]

Starts Oct. 4th here, but I generally don't troll much until mid December. Until then it's schoolies on light tackle. Under the CBBT at night with the lights means a hit EVERY cast! The rocks around the islands are good for a few larger fish.

Now, if I can just get that helm pump cheap....

 

[Ranger Tim]

When I was asking about series or parallel I was referring to the throttle and shift cables. Which set up do you guys use? Is there an advantage to either or is the parallel option difficult to hook up at the motor linkage?

Found some brand new TFXtreme cables on eBay for $30 a piece, but they are 20 and 22 feet long. It would be counter productive to have more length than I need, i.e. you shouldn't have any slack cable causing extra coils, correct? Are the cable terminations for Yamaha the same as Mercury and is there a difference in various Mercury vintages?

After reviewing Dale's pictures of the inside of the cabin wall I am leaning toward a housing on the exterior to mount the helm pump and controls. This will give me a cleaner appearance, provide more free space for cable turns, yet not take up as much room as the freestanding station. I really need to be able to keep the sides of the cockpit clear for landing fish. My dealer can order the bulkhead mount for me for around $300 yet I am not sure Parker is making a version to fit the 2120/2320 -- In the past it was necessary to split the factory mount in half, remove some of the center, reattach the halves and resurface. I have plenty of West System (I repair camp boats and friends boats frequently) so this is not too complicated.


I told you there'd be a bunch of questions! Hopefully the next person that is as ignorant of this stuff as me and tries this modification will find this helpful. I am currently bidding on a Seastar pump -- say a prayer for me!

 

[Ranger Tim]

The second helm saga continues:

What is the hose used for the compensation line? Dale, your install shows this line projecting into the cabin interior significantly. Can't I install a 90 degree elbow fitting in this line in order to direct it downward, just like the other hoses?

I still haven't received any advice about running the Morse engine control cables in series or parallel. Any thoughts?

Can I disassemble the Yamaha control I currently have and utilize the key switch and lanyard shut-off?

I love tinkering with this boat. It is one of the most user friendly things I've ever owned.

 

[DaleH]

What is the hose used for the compensation line? Can't I install a 90 degree elbow fitting in this line in order to direct it downward, just like the other hoses?

It is heavy duty plastic that comes in the 2nd station kit you need to buy, as that also has the fittings you need in it. In regards to a 90-degree fitting, if you put the 2nd controls on a bulkhead, I'd think you'd be OK. I would think that you should be able to find a 90-degree fitting that will take that comp line, rather than the straight-in fitting that comes in the kit.

I still haven't received any advice about running the Morse engine control cables in series or parallel. Any thoughts?

Series is easiest. I thought I answered this. Yamahas use straight Morse type 33 connections. Put your control cables from OB to 2nd helm on the cabin, then route from other hanger on each controp up to the main helm.

You need to THINK through what you're doing here. When you put the gear shift into forward at the 2nd helm, the lever pushes forward and you need to "pull" towards the bow on the gear control. That means that cable needs to be mounted on the rearmost of the gear lever hanger. Then add your other control cable (should be about 12'+ long) from the forward-most hanger of the gear control on the 2nd helm to the rearmost hanger on the gear lever on the main helm. Got it?

Can I disassemble the Yamaha control I currently have and utilize the key switch and lanyard shut-off?

You could, that's what I did. I took those 2 things out of the control box and mounted them through the side of my helm. Then I sold the control on eBay and got $100 for it !

 

[Ranger Tim]

Thanks! I guess that should wrap this thread up. I'm tired of scrolling through to the bottom now. I'll post a pictured update when the install takes place.