Help Select and Rig a 23DVCC, Part II.

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ChrisC

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The hunt continued last week when I was home in the states. I was briefly in D.C., so I took one day and dashed down to Beaufort and visited the Parker factory. It will probably not surprise all of you Parker owners that I was impressed by what I saw and how I was treated.

The next day I headed up to Rhode Island and met the Parker dealer there to discuss a purchase and options for rigging a new 23DVCC for fishing in New England, including electronics (more on that with a future note). There is also a used 23DVCC nearby, and I looked at it. The boat seems to be in great shape, but has one feature I don’t like – the forward v-seating. I worry that this cuts into fishing space, and especially worry that someone could fall off it. This was confirmed Saturday night when my father, brother and I were fishing on a 23’ Wellcraft center console near Point Judith. The seas were gentle and the fish were tight to rocks we were drifting by. My dad, who is nearing 70, was trying to get a little more distance on his casts and he got up on the seats to sling eels. Like I said, it was pretty calm; just a little chop and a light but very steady and predictable swell. Anyhow, my brother hooked a decent bass and was fighting it, and my father turned to watch, missed his step, lost his balance and fell across the gunnel. He almost went in. Thankfully he’s fit and alert, and he managed to get a hand on the rail as he went down, and stopped himself. This event -- a near dunking -- convinced me that v-seating is too tempting to stand on, and my young kids (I have four, including a one-year-old) will invariably take a spill from up there. I’m inclined to order my own hull new to avoid it. If anyone wants a seat on a particular trip, I can bring along a folding chair with rubber stoppers on the legs.

Now here comes a new twist. Having looked over the boats, and carefully considering the space issues with three or four adults casting eels at night as well as our desire to get out at least occasionally to Montauk, the Mud Hole, etc., I’ve begun thinking about – am I nuts? – the 25DVCC. I looked at the hulls on the 25, and was really taken by the cockpit size (it’s massive) and my sense that this boat would give us a lot more space and security, and still would let us fish the nearshore rock piles with ease. Price is an issue, obviously. I’m a little shocked at the price. And I wonder about the range of other choices at in the 24- and 25-foot class, which could include everything from Albin to Regulator. (The 23DVCC seems to stand alone in its class, but I’m not sure about how the 25 stacks up to the competition.)

So a few new questions for all of you: do any of you own the 25DVCC or have experience on one? If yes, how does it compare to other center consoles of comparable size? Also, for those of you own the same hull with a cabin or walk-around, what engine(s) would you recommend, or, for that matter, avoid? I see it can be ordered with dual 150s, 200s, or 225s, and now comes standard with the new 350. The choices are perplexing.

I’m getting very close to doing this. It’s only a matter of making the choice between 23 and 25, assuming the 25DVCC compares favorably and I can get a handle on the operating costs (the fuel and the costs of maintaining dual four-stroke may ultimately dissuade me). Then I’ll be looking at a few possibilities on the used market. If nothing materializes used, then by mid-winter I’ll be stepping up and signing the line on a new boat. I’m leaning toward the 23DVCC, as I was before. But I do want to put that 25 on the balance scale and think through it fully before I make the final choice….

I flew back overseas to my office yesterday with a sense that the last few days were well spent. Now I want to make sure my dollars will be, too. Thank you all again for this resource on Parker boats. They look like incredible and simple fishing machines. Next year I hope to be on one.

Chris
 
I, too looked at the 25 briefly when I saw one on land. You're right, there is a ton of cockpit room. Three things steered me back to the 23.

First was the dual engines. Didn't need them or want them. My buddy has dual 225 Yamahas on his Regulator 24 and watching his fuel flow meter is frightening. At least 22 gallons per hour at any speed vs 12-13 with a single 250 pushing a 23 footer.

Next was the beam. Couldn't trailer it without hassles. I don't take mine very far, but it is nice for winter storage and to take it to the Cape now and again.

Last was price differential. I did start getting up there with Regulators, etc.

I guess there was another consideration and that was just how ften do I fish with four people on board? Usually three or less are actually fishing and there is plenty of room on board even with the forward seating.

Which brings me to my last point. Think about what you will be giving up without it. Storage under them is great. The fishing off them is terrific, especially with the center piece in place, and you can fish from the middle of them when it is too rocky. My kids have never abused the seats to get too close to the gunnels. Resale will be hurt for the majority of people who really like seating.
 
Is the F350 an option now on the 2501 DVCC for 2008?
The company web site still shows the 2007 models, and the F350 isn't mentioned anywhere.
 
Re the new 350 on the 2501 --
That was listed as the base engine on the price/spec sheet that the dealer handed me at Don' Marine in R.I. I don't know what Parker's nationwide standard is, but that's how this one dealer pitches them.
Chris
 
I'd be careful with Don's. I had a particularly bad experience there - they wouldn't talk to me, did not return my calls and gave me bad advice about choosing a boat (when they did talk to me). Made the trip to Boats Inc and had a great experience. My salesman was Mark Davies - who knew much more about Parkers than anyone at Don's. I highly recommend Mark. I had the boat delivered to Niantic (CT) and I made the (quite pleasant) trip to Rhode Island by water in the spring. They slipped the boat at the dealership's marina and gave me no pressure to leave. They even accommodated me for in-warranty repairs (leaky hatch) in Rhode Island. Don's did not even show any interest in servicing/winterizing the boat - had to have a Massachusetts Grady dealer come out ($$$).

By the way, I have a diabetic son and asked Parker to make some modifications (in cabin galley) that was not offered - Robin was great and did whatever we wanted. My experience is that Parker will work with you.
 
I have the 2300CC DV and its a great boat,I also looked at the 25 but after carefully considering the cost of 2 motors/fuel/maintanance and most of all you will need a big truck to pull it out or trailer it comfortably,I said to myself,the 2300CC DV is way to go,and I do not regret it,it has room to spare,you can haul it with a V8 truck and mine has a 250HP Yamaha which is very economical and moves the boat great with a WOT of 42/43.

Godd Luck

Robert
 
I bought my boat from Don's and I have been treated like royalty. The owner himself, Don, appears to be there every day and he has always returned my calls in the past. To each his own I guess.

My advice. Go big. Get the 2501 because if you don't in two years you will wished you had and you will be looking to upgrade.

Do't let the whole twin scews thing get you worried. If you can afford it, go for it. Those gray four stroke motors(read Yamaha's) are reliable and mizers on gas.
 
Most people say the 25DVCC will not ride as good as the 23DVCC (same deadrise w/more beam slamming the seas). A few years ago, Parker discontinued the no foreward seating option. There were so many complaints, Parker re-introduced the NFS option in 2005 (?). IMO, the 2 versions appeal to 2 different groups. Even Regulator added a FS option for the "family cruisers". Contender and SeaCraft seem to manage without molded in furniture.

I don't know where some of you fish, but I know it is all I can do at times to stand braced off at the bow holding a 10' cast net, trying to keep my balance. No way could I stand on top of some seats and look for bait. :shock:
 
Those possible fuel flow numbers -- 22 gallons an hour -- for the twin 225 four-strokes are scary. That seems like a huge amount of gas (and money) burned to chase bass, blues, tautog and fluke, which is probably mostly what we'll do.

I also wonder whether the 25DVCC packages are generally overpowered. The dealer said that they expect a used boat to come up for sale soon with those twin 225s, and it made me wonder: do any of the other Parker 25-footers typically have that much power?

I admit I'm tempted by the 25DVCC's awesome layout, which would be terrific when my father and brother and our combined six little kids want to head out. But realistically most days the crowd will be smaller. And most nights will be me alone. Reason will probably prevail here.

That said, has anyone seen good performance data on the various 2501 configurations? They have the 25SE data on the Yamaha site, but I couldn't find any for the 25 deep vee.
 
It is my experience that anything in the Parker 25 arsenal is usually being offered with the twin 150's which are sweethearts on fuel. I do know that before Parker was offering the twin 225 package, but the weight increase and drag on the boat made them ineffecient. I have twin 150's on my 25xld and wot is 46-47. I cruise at 34-36 and have never seen the kind of fuel numbers mentioned earlier. Those are numbers that i had on my 31 contender with twin 250's 2 stroke.

You have to measure what is best for you. I am not a fan of the modified V, but i fish offshore more often than not so the Deep V is something i need. There is absolutely no way that a loaded 25 Parker anything would be anywhere near the price of a loaded Regulator of the same size!!!! :shock:
 
ChrisN,

I've been trying to find the performance data/numbers for twin 150s on a 25 Deep Vee. They have some on the Yamaha site that give me a sense with the 25 cabin boats but not for the 25CC.

Since the hulls are the same, maybe your boat is a reasonable indicator for two questions:

1) What gph you get at the cruise speed of around 35?

2) And can your engines slow down enough, and run smooth enough, for inshore trolling?

Thanks for any insights. The 150s on that boat would certainly be an easier match than paired 225s. I look at the list sticker price for a new 25DVCC with twin 225s -- about $82k for the base boat & engines, with no options --- and I think: Ouch. And that's even before thinking about the fuel and maintenance costs.

Chris
 
Cruising at around 35 puts my rpms at around 4600 and i am burning about 16.5gph.

I mostly fish offshore, but i foten need to slow WAY down for some trolling methods. I am at about 4mph with both gears engaged at idle. I can kick one engine into neutral if i have too.
 
Thanks for the fuel/performance numbers.
I was looking at the Yamaha performance bulletins for twin 150s on 25DV hulls (the cabin boat, not the center console) and saw that they estimate a burn of about 12 gph at 4000 rpm, and about 1 gph at 1000rpm. Speed at 400 rpm was, if I remember, in the high 20s or about 30.
I'm still running numbers and lining them up with our family budget and our anticiptaed use to see what makes the most sense.
Buying a boat, or at least trying to do it smart, is a big chore.
Thank you.
Chris
 
I simply do not believe that twin 150's will burn only 12 GPH at speed. That is 6 GPH each. If I am wrong, then is more economical to run twin 150's than one 250. Maybe, but it doesn't make sense to me.

Remember, we are talking deep vee, NOT modified vee. BIG difference in pushing water vs. skimming along the top. I think mileage is one thing that suffers in exchange for performance.
 
Oh, forgot to mention that this past weekend I went out chasing stripers doing their pre-migration surface frenzy. I had my two boys and two of their friends with me, ages 8 to 11.

All fished at the same time and I even had the fly rod going in the stern. Plenty of room and plenty of fish!
 
Re the gph/rpm of the twin 150s on a 25DV hull, let me go back and refer to the bulletin. I don't have them on my desk here and typed that last post from memory.

Memory, roughly, tells me this: that according to the Yamaha bulletins, the 23DVCC and the 25MVCC burn about 8 gph at 4000rpm with a 250 four-stroke, and that the 25MVSC burns 12 gph (and change) at 4000 rpm with twin 150s.

But again -- this is memory. I'll look up the exact numbers from my folder of bulletins and type them in verbatim, including the speeds and mpg associated with each. I could be wrong.

Chris
 
Dave-J,

I have the performance bulletins in front of me now. If anyone thinks they are inaccurate, they can weigh in. These came from the Yamaha site.

First, the 2520 DC SV, with twin 150 four strokes, tested in 2003. Boat weight listed as 4500 pounds and test was done with full fuel tank but only 50 pounds of gear. Seconds to plane listed was 4.83

4000 rpm = 28.8 mph = 12.3 gph = 2.34 mpg
4500 rpm = 34.7 mph = 15.2 gph = 2.28 mpg
5000 rpm = 38.3* mph = 17.5 gph = 2.19 mpg

(I put the asterisk at 38.3 mpg because the performance bulletin actually says 28.3 mpg but that appears to be a typo.)

Next, the 25SE MV CC with 250 four-stroke, tested in 2004. Boat weight listed as 4300 pounds and with 3/4 tank of fuel, t-top and two people. Seconds to plane listed was 5.8.

4000 rpm = 25.4 mph = 8.1 gph = 3.14 mpg
4500 rpm = 32.8 mph = 10.7 gph = 3.06 mpg
5000 rpm = 37.1 mph = 13.9 gph =2.68 mpg

Last, the 23DVCC with a 225 four-stroke, tested in 2001. Boat weight listed was 3200 pounds and as tested with t-top. 3/4 tank of fuel.
No seconds to plane listed.

4000 rpm = 27.8 mph = 8.3 gph = 3.35 mpg
4500 rpm no data listed
5000 rpm = 35.1 mph = 12.8 phh = 2.74 mpg

That's it for now. I'm hoping to find better data on the 25DVCC, but maybe the 25 DV SC data is a rough substitute. I'd also like to get newer data on the 23DVCC. I may send a note to Robin and ask her, as it will help to sharpen my choices to be more certain about operating costs.
Meanwhile, if you think these numbers are off or if my thinking seems wrong re using the 25DV SC data to approximate fuel burn on 25DVCC, let me know.

Thanks.
 
So, I went on the Ymaha website and confirmed your numbers. Just for giggles I looked up the Regulator 23 and 24 data to compare with my buddies' experience.

I am quite sure Yamaha did a thorough job testing and I am not quibbling with their numbers. I'm just saying that neither of my Regulator-owning friends get the fuel economy listed there for either the F250 on the 23 or the twin 200's on the 24.

For example, at 4500 rpm, the Reg 23 burns north of 13 gph, not 12 and at 4500 rarely gets above 27-28 MPH.

Maybe they both have bad props, but my point is that your mileage may vary!
 
Gentlemen,

These numbers are pretty much right on and that is coming from a 25xld owner which is a bit heavier. I would think twin 150's on the 25CC would have a bit better performance numbers.

Now i will argue one thing. Once above the 4900-5000 RPM scale the numbers do change dramatically in the curve. AT WOT or 6000RPM i would likely be burning at around 30gph and 46mph.
 
I purchased a new 2501 w/ twin 150's in February. It is by far the best boat I have ever owned. The 9'6" beam makes a big difference when fishing, whis is about all I do with it. If you want the performance #'s for that boat just call Parker and they will send them to you. I average 2.0 mpg. As far as trailoring the boat it may require a permit ( in Fla it costs $25.00/ yr ), I trailored mine to the Key's this summer which is about 160 miles 1 way with a Tahoe and it was not a big deal.
When i bought the boat I was a little bit concerend about the 150's being enough power but that concerened went away the first time I used the boat. The 150's push the boat approx. 43-45 mph and that is as fast as I want to go

I do not think that you can find any boat for the money that is as good as the 2501 with the twins.

Good luck and buy the boat, you will not regret it, I didn't
 
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