The Lori-K gets a new motor

[SBH2OMan]

I don't have her back from the shop yet, but the Lori-K has a new Honda BF225 pushing her around now. The old Ox66 just got to be too much of a headache to maintain and I was tired of wrenching on it instead of using the boat. Plus with Honda financing, the monthly payment will more or less be covered by the projected fuel, oil, and maintenance savings. Not to mention the peace of mind of knowing I can go 30 miles off shore and not worry about getting home because I'm getting weird random hiccups from the motor at certain RPM ranges....

As part of the project, we replaced the transom batteries with a pair of Optima Blue Top batteries (Light gray case for deep cycle, dark gray case for starting - or vice versa I can't remember). BTW, Optimas are the only AGM batteries certified by Honda for use as starting batteries.

We also removed the kicker motor to reduce listing and weight on the transom. Since the kicker is not able to push the boat up-wind or up swell anyway because of the boat's weight and sail area, it was more or less useless for getting home in an emergency. This left its purpose as solely for trolling, which I do a couple times a year, and the Honda motor will gladly do all day long (unlike a 2-stroke). Between changing the batteries and removing the kicker, I figure we have a net weight savings of about 20 lbs on the transom.

Because the new motor is 100% NMEA2000 compliant, we also decided to go with one of the new Raymarine e7 units (on order) and clean up the dash, limiting the analog gauges to just a tach and fuel gauge. The rest of the instrumentation will come from the e7 Unit.

The shop owner sea trailed it yesterday and called me. We were talking for a few minutes and I asked "so when are you going to put it in the water?"

"I'm out sea trailing it right now." he said matter of factly.

"Oh, have you started the motor yet?" I asked

"I'm running at 5,000 RPMs and going 35 mph." He replies

"Wow!" I think, remarking on how quiet it is. "So you have the cabin door closed then?" I ask

"Nope, Its wide open."

OMG, this motor is quiet... It was like talking to him in his living room!

He trailed it with a 15p prop and by my calculations was getting 4% slip at 5500 RPM which is AMAZING compared to the results I was getting with my old motor. He could not get it up to 6000 RPM, and said it felt "sluggish" with the 15p (we had a Mirage 17 on their before). So next week we are going to trial it with a 13p and an 11p (which I cannot believe would be the right prop, but apparently these Titan props are very different from the Mirage props). As long as I can cruise at 4200 to 4500 and maintain 25 to 27 mph, I'll be happy. The slip on this motor/prop is SO much less than what I was seeing on the Yamaha/Mirago combo.

Some pics of the project. One thing you'll note is the extreme angle of this bracket put on the boat by Parker. There really are two things "wrong" with these old style brackets from Stainless Marine: one, they have no floatation to speak of, and two, the mounting bracket is angled too much in towards the boat. You have to trim the motor 1/2 way up just to get it level with the bottom of the boat...

 

[Luv2fish]

Nice post and congratulations on the new Honda motor. I am a huge Honda fan and have told my wife that when it comes time to replace the motor, I have a Yamaha now, it will be a Honda. They are a bit heavier but I've got Honda motors on everything that comes with a Honda motor, including a 20 year old mower that still starts on the first pull every time. Don't know what they do different but they just keep running.

Good luck.

 

[sabalo]

Awesome, Brent. Congratulations! I'd love to check check out the install when you get her back. Looking great.

Craig.

 

[Brent]

Congrats!

 

[captbone]

Congrats on the new engine.

It looks great. I am going to disagree with your tech though. I know I am just some stranger from the internet but the boat is not dialed in, the engine not broken in and they did not try other brands of propellers. The engine is mounted all of the way down and reversing a set of negative wedges will stop it from being so far tucked under.

You should not be dropping to a 13pitch or 11 pitch propeller. A 16x13 prop is not going to give you the performance you should get from that boat and an 11 is not even in the ball park. I feel like the tech is just try to get you RPM into range and calling it a day.

I would beg you to try a 15pitch Enertia and raising the engine up a hole or even two.

Over the life time of the engine 2-3gph/.5 or .75mpg and 3-4mph will be huge in terms of fuel consumption.

Just my 2 cents.

I love the Honda 225hps! It looks great. Congrats on the new engine.

 

[SBH2OMan]

Thanks Tom. Yes, I am concerned about the prop selection, too. Mathematically the 13 doesn't really jive and an 11 definitely doesn't!

We are raising the motor 1 or maybe 2 holes before the next sea trial.

What are these "negative wedges" you mention?

 

[captbone]

Here are the transom wedges.

http://www.bobsmachine.com/Products/transom_wedges.cfm

They simply mount between the engine and the transom. They are solid and you never have to worry about them.

The Enertia prop will give you 200 rpm more because of the aggressive rake and thinner blades that the special X7 Stainless Steel allows. That combined with raising the engine should give you the RPM and performance.

 

[DaleH]

Nice repower!

One thing you'll note is the extreme angle of this bracket put on the boat by Parker. There really are two things "wrong" with these old style brackets from Stainless Marine: one, they have no floatation to speak of ...

Ahhh, you can't compare 90s technology brackets to those made today. There is floatation, just equal to the amount immersed in water, via its displacement you know, as that is how floatation works. As is, most boats were not designed for the added weight of 4-stroke OB motors.

... and two, the mounting bracket is angled too much in towards the boat. You have to trim the motor 1/2 way up just to get it level with the bottom of the boat...

This is a DEALER problem, not a bracket problem. Each motor trim mount has a trim limiter rod, yours is set wrong. You want some negative trim of course, but yours is set too deep. This is a dealer setup issue.

I'd also agree that your OB is set way too deep and I'd try the largest diameter 4-blade prop you can and would recommend you send an email to Ken @ PropGods, via their website: www.propgods.com.

FYI, anytime the pitch number starts to be lower than the prop diameter number ... you LOSE performance big time! I highly doubt that boat should wear a prop of less than 15" pitch.

 

[Brent]

Does he did need the wedges?

 

[captbone]

The reason that I feel he needs the wedges is because under power you can only trim up to the full extent of the smaller side rams. The main ram can not trim under power without the short side rams. I would think that under power, he maybe at full trim just to be level and then cant come up anymore for performance.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[SBH2OMan]

Thanks guys. These are things I wiill definitely check before signing off on the job. The shop owner actually said something about wedges but I didn't know what he was talking about. Now I guess I do.

I'm wondering if a 17p mirage but with the vents opened up a bit might be something to test as well.

I just read the article Dale posted about engine height. I've seen this before and actually ran the boat (with the old motor) trying to test for this. The bracket creates so much disturbance in the water that it is really hard to tell what's going on back there. It seemed that when I raised the old motor high enough to see the av plate, the prop blew out constantly...


Here we go again...

 

[captbone]

The PVS holes in the Mercury props only help with holeshot. It allows the gas to escape around the prop instead of thru hub. This gas allows the prop to slip and allows the engine to wind up to the powerband. Once on plane, it stops working.

 

[SBH2OMan]

The PVS holes in the Mercury props only help with holeshot. It allows the gas to escape around the prop instead of thru hub. This gas allows the prop to slip and allows the engine to wind up to the powerband. Once on plane, it stops working.

Exactly. So in other words, if a 16p prop is "perfect" for cruising performance with a moderate load, but the holeshot is terrible and it is lugging the engine at lower the rpm range, is this a more sophisticated way to address the problem rather than simply dropping down to a 13p prop?

By the way, what is the difference between the Enertia prop and the Mirage? A friend of mine just put one on his 2120 (a 15p) with Yammie F200 and he is very happy with it.

 

[captbone]

Yep. The PVS holes help alot with holeshot and would resolve any sluggishness of a larger prop. It slips til it planes off but you dont feel it since the slip number never get above 25-30% and its only in the 1200-2200 rpm range where its subplaning and bogging normally. I played with PVS plugs for weeks with my engine and found that solid plugs in two and no plug in a third was the ticket. I tried all small hole PVS plugs and made no difference.

I know that Enertia are a newer prop and harder to find. If you cant find it, go with a Mirage Plus or Rev4 15pitch with one PVS hole empty and the others plugged.

The Enertia is a radically different prop and night and day difference between the Mirage Plus. Its made out of a different stainless steel and the blades are raked completely different. I loved my Mirage Plus and was reluctant to lay out the money to go to the Enertia but it was well worth it. The Enertia was designed specifically for a heavy single engine application.

 

[Brent]

Aer you using the Enertia on the Bertram?

 

[captbone]

Yep. I started off with a 15pitch Mirage Plus and ended up with the 15pitch Enertia. I gain 200 RPM and 2mph plus holeshot. I currently dont have my trimtabs hooked up, (I am installing a lenco retrofit kit this winter) and am running a doelfin on the vent plate.

They also make a 14pitch Enertia if needed but luckily I get 5400+ with the 15pitch.

I can stay on a plane a 3000 rpm and 16-18mph trimmed all the way down. I have fished with 6 guys and fuel fuel with no problem.

 

[SBH2OMan]

The Enertia was designed specifically for a heavy single engine application.

Hmm.. According to Mercury's web site:

"The Enertia is a revolutionary propeller that improves both acceleration and top speed on center consoles, high-horsepower pontoons, and stern drive-powered runabouts"

Doesn't sound like heavy deep-vee pilothouse boats fit those categories...?

All this prop switching is such a PITA. And the shops seem to be in too much of a hurry to "just get to 6000 rpm" which seems asinine when the boat has to run balls-out just to remain on plane with a low pitch prop. Argh, frustrating!

Maybe I'll try my 17p Mirage with all the vents removed just for shits and grins, since all i'd have to do is buy a hub kit for it.

Capbone, do you find a difference in stern/bow lift between the Enertia and the Mirage Plus?

Thanks again for all the comments guys, this is very helpful and keeping me from just "accepting" the boat as delivered when I know it isn't ideal in my gut...

 

[miky2884]

Yep. I started off with a 15pitch Mirage Plus and ended up with the 15pitch Enertia. I gain 200 RPM and 2mph plus holeshot. I currently dont have my trimtabs hooked up, (I am installing a lenco retrofit kit this winter) and am running a doelfin on the vent plate.

They also make a 14pitch Enertia if needed but luckily I get 5400+ with the 15pitch.

I can stay on a plane a 3000 rpm and 16-18mph trimmed all the way down. I have fished with 6 guys and fuel fuel with no problem.

I LOVE THAT BOAT!!!! VERY COOL!!!!

Got anymore pics? Sorry dont want to interrupt this thread

 

[captbone]

I found the Enertia to do everything the Mirage did just better. It was noticeable and the slip numbers went down all around. I didnt notice the sternlift because I added the doelfin at the same time. Mercury used to specifically advertise the Enertia for Single engine offshore applications but it does seem like they have changed it, perhaps for to gain in other markets? IDK

I would not recommend running with more then one PVS hole out. I tried all PVS plugs out one time and it would rev up too high before finally catching and sometime it wouldnt catch. 1 PVS hole does introduce alot of exhaust into the blade area, I would start with one out and then pop another if needed. Each PVS plug is only like 2 bucks, I buy solid and then drill holes instead of buying the small, medium and large hole. I even went so far to test, empty hole (no pvs plug) vs large hole and found no difference so its just easier to leave one out.

My boat is still a work in progress and seems like its never done.

 

[SBH2OMan]

Sea trailed the boat today. Unfortunately conditions were quite rough and it was tough to do a good test. We started out with a Solas Titan 15p prop. The performance was VERY similar to what I was getting with my old 2-stroke 250 and a Mirage Plus 17p. Top speed was about 40 mph and 5500 rpm. Coming up out of the hole was very slow unless I trimmed the motor up and give it plenty of tabs. Shop owner was not happy with that, so we put on a "13" pitch Solas prop. Interestingly, it behaved almost identically to my old 15 pitch Powertech OFS3 prop. It blasted out of the hole and jumped up on plane, but has to run at 4500 to 4800 to get into the "sweet spot" of 25+ mph. We were flying all over the place though, as we were running through very choppy 2-4' short period wind swell and could only make high speed runs down swell. I'm not quite ready to call it a definitive test. Hopefully the weather will lay down tomorrow afternoon for some additional testing.

One thing I'll say about the Solas prop - it reverses like a MOFO! My usual docking technique is to point the bow at a 30 degree angle at the dock and just before hitting the dock, I crank the wheel over, point the prop at the dock and hit reverse. The first time I tried it with the new motor I damned near backed up over the dock!

I think I'll be playing with these props for a while before I get it just right, as the "15" is a bit sluggish, but the 13 runs up too high once at cruising speed. Unfortunately, I don't have fuel management installed yet (waiting on the e7 to ship) so I can't say anything about fuel consumption yet. I may spring $50 for the Honda hub kit for my Mirage Plus and try that with some of the PVS holes removed and see if that gives me the right compromise. The shop is letting me keep both Solas props while I dial things in and I can return one or both when I get things figured out.

The thing sure is quiet though! And the new Hynautic steering ram is beautiful - so slim and simple, it looks bullet-proof.