Ditch Bag Questions

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Parker Paul

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Well, I had planned to spend some money on the 2310 this Spring, but
the recent events in the GOM really got me to thinking that safety is more inportant that fancy gadgets , and so I have some questions. First, will
the ditch bag float? If the boat turned turtle, and the bag got dumped somehow, would it float? Next, I have read most all the articles on the ditch bags, and I see that some of you have them chuck full will all sorts of good stuff. Now, if we were in the water and in 6' seas with no boat to hang onto, how do you get to some of your items that may be in the bottom of the bag without losing other things. Bobbing up and down in rough water, how easily can you sort out all the stuff in the bag to find what you really need? My initial thinking is to keep the contents sparse, and basic with most important things like PLB, handheld VHF, flares. and several tether lines. water. If you were disabled on your boat, or in a raft, I understand it would be much easier to sort out sll the good things to have in a loaded bag.

Regards, Paul

2005 2310WA / F250
Pt Judith Salt Pond
Pt Judith, RI
 
You and everyone else that has been reading about boating fatalities have been rethinking their emergency preparedness, including me.

I don't have all the answers and maybe some I do have are not correct but I have spent a fair amount of time and money trying to be prepared.

I will answer some of your questions and give you some of my thoughts:

Not all ditch bags float. Even those that say they do, won't, if loaded with too much stuff. Some of the more expensive ones do a better job floating, even with "stuff" in it. To be sure, calculate the weight of all the "stuff" in your DB. Remove it all and put the same amount of weight in the bag and drop it in your pool or nearest body of water. Does it float? If not, you could secure a pool noodle around it to help with the buoyancy.

The DB has got to be somewhere where you can grab it and quickly secure it to yourself with a short lanyard. I use a short propylene line with a harbinger that I can attache to my belt loop. If your boat turtles and you put the bag in a storage compartment somewhere, you are going to have to swim under the boat and get it. Good Luck with that...

Next you asked, how do you get to your stuff at the bottom without losing the other stuff at the top.

Most good DB's have compartments that either zip up or velcro down. You put key stuff in key compartments. But even with those features you need to take precautions. For example, if you have your PLB in the DB and it drops out while you are fishing around for it or something else, you have a problem as MOST PLB's do NOT float. So, you really need to think through how you are likely to utilize your safety equipment and then store it accordingly. You can buy a float collar for your PLB. Most come with lanyards.

I would think that if your emergency is weather related, you will have some time to prepare. It's generally not beautiful outside one minute and then 30 seconds later it's 10 ft seas. For me, if the weather looks like it's turning ugly fast and I'm stuck way offshore, I've got my life jacket on, with the PLB already secured to the jacket. If it's really bad, I will also bring the life raft out on deck, secured to the boat with a long line for deployment and a short line to keep it from bouncing out of the boat. The ditch bag is out and secured to the raft.

I know some people would say that my next suggestion is stupid but, I say, it's better than nothing. If you don't have a life raft and your only alternative is to "bob" up and down in the water, why not add an inflatable pool raft at a minimum? I mean, if you go in the drink during the winter, you probably aren't going to be "bobbing" for very long. Survival suits and wet suits only work if your wearing them. Surely, if your life depended on it, you could inflate a pool raft, even in 6 foot seas.

By the way, the sole survivor in Tampa was found sitting on the stern of the turtled boat clutching the lower unit with a face full of prop. He did that for 4 days.

I'm sure there are many more suggestions, probably better than mine out there, but just think it through. Think of the various scenarios that could cause you either abandon ship or eject you. What if your running in a CC and you get ejected? How do you keep the boat from running away from you? Do most people actually use the kill switch lanyard? Are you going to start now? Too restrictive? Consider the auto tether!

Anyway, too long a post. Good Luck. I hope others chime in.
 

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I'm planning on buying 2 PLBs. I'm thinking that 1 McMurdo FastFind / GPS and 1 ACR Aquafix 406 with onboard GPS. The only reason for the 2 different ones is that I don't know which one is better. If one had a problem, the other is a backup. Is this wrong thinking, or would you think that buying 2 exactly the same would be better? Also, what kind of strobe is good? The price varies quite a bit between them. On a
handheld VHF, I think I would prefer a floater. Something like a SH750.
Standard makes the 850 but I don't think I need the DSC with the PLBs.
Any and all suggestions are more than welcome.

Regards, Paul

2005 2310WA / F250
Pt Judith Salt Pond
Pt Judith, RI
 
My emergency equipment bag is by ACR and it is (allegedly) waterproof and floats.

Image-BE010422E42411D9.jpg


To partially solve the problem of needed items floating away, the bag has a number of tethers inside of it that can snap to your needed items to keep them from floating away.

My plan is to never find myself in that situation, but if I do, I believe that I'm pretty well covered in the emergency preparedness category. :wink:
 
I see that you have the smaller of the two ACR bags. The bigger bag can be much more expensive. Does the smaller one hold all that you need it to OK? Seems that the bigger one just has more external pouches. Any preference for either ACR or McMurdo PLBs? Lots of strobes on the market also. Anything preferable?

Paul

2005 2310WA / F250
Pt Judith Salt Pond
Pt Judith, RI
 
I selected this bag because it holds all of my safety and survival items (and then some), and I haven't run out of room yet. :)

I own an ACR PLB now and plan to buy a McMurdo too. Can't comment on the ACR as I've never had to use it, but they are highly regarded.
All EPIRB's and PLB's must pass stringent testing before being brought to market, so I would think that either or both are fine.
 
i have the same bag as Kevin. the same thing applies to me, theres plenty of room for all my gear, including an epirb, vhf, gps, water, lights, etc. also, if you find that you need the larger bag to carry all your gear, youre going to have to start considering weight, and how easy it will be to handle in an emergency. if you need more than the Rapiditch express, it might be time to slim down the "vital" gear. :wink:
 
DougP":1zic39y0 said:
take out what you dont need and add what you want for the area you boat or fish.

Very good advice.

The areas where I boat and fish are very well traveled, so I don't need food, water, or other provisions. The chances of me being stranded like Gilligan are pretty close to zero.

My bag is loaded with pyrotechnics, dye, mirrors, strobes, laser pointers, and other items to get the attention of nearby boats, or people on land. I've added extra first aid supplies, space blankets, my PLB, handheld VHF, and other items specifically tailored to the waters that I travel.

Pack your emergency bag with what you need for the waters you will find yourself in, not by some list that tries to cover every contingency possible. :wink:
 
Megabyte":bwbf66ug said:
DougP":bwbf66ug said:
take out what you dont need and add what you want for the area you boat or fish.

Very good advice.

..... I don't need food, water, or other provisions. The chances of me being stranded like Gilligan are pretty close to zero.

Pack your emergency bag with what you need for the waters you will find yourself in, not by some list that tries to cover every contingency possible. :wink:

Yep. I routinely will fish 80-100 miles out and it is very possible that there won't be another boat coming my way. Therefore, I carry MRE type food, water, smoke, parachute flares and other items to help me and 3 crew survive a 2-3 day stint in a life raft!!
 
another thing to consider when packing a ditch bag is the EPIRB. if its not hydrostatically mounted, then by all accounts it should be in your ditch bag. by that logic, and assuming you service and test it properly, if you have the ditch bag, you have the EPIRB. therefore, it is unlikely that, from the time of activation, you will be in the water for more than a few hours. personally, i plan for a day. with that in mind, it is most important to pack items for several key purposes:

1) warmth. whether youre in the water or in a raft, it is VITAL to maintain warmth, even if you boat in fairly warm waters (remember that water saps warmth away from your body at 3 times the rate of air). so, space blankets, handwarmer packets, knit hats, and similar items should be in your bag.

2) medical treatment. many of the reasons that a boat will sink may involve injuries to the crew. such injuries may include burns from fuel or electrical fires, bruises and lacerations caused by getting thrown around after a collision, or other small injuries sustained in the process of abandoning ship. therefore, items such as gauze, burn cream, ace bandages, waterproof bandaids, tape, tweezers, aspirin, ibuprofin, etc, should be included in your ditch bag. it is also important to keep all these items DRY. the container i use for this is a wide-mouth Nalgene bottle, which also serves the function of a drinking container to collect water or for other miscellaneous purposes.

3) location. like i said, the EPIRB which should DEFINATELY be a major component of your ditch equipment, will alert the Coast Guard to your predicament and get them to your general location through triangulation, and the 12.5 mhz beacon will help them get to within about a 1/4 mile of your location. however, viewed from the air, in fog, at night or in heavy seas, a 1/4 of a mile can be a significant distance. therefore, handheld arial flares (Orion Skyblazers), handheld "stick" flares, smoke signals, dye markers, strobe lights, laser pointers, signal mirrors, and lightsticks will provide visible beacons that will pinpoint your location. also, a handheld VHF will allow you to communicate with cutters, helos, or other boats which you may be able to see but which may not be able to see you. simple directions such as "we're dead ahead" or "turn to port" can bring rescuers right to your doorstep; one with GPS readouts like the Standard Horizon HX850S can allow you to give other recreational boats without homing equipment exact position numbers. of course, spare batteries for all equipment that use them should be carried and stored in vacuum sealed bags.

4) miscellaneous equipment. there is some stuff that you should just have for whatever purpose may arise. for me, these incluse some of the following. water, because on a hot day, dehydration is going to take a quick toll, especially after smoke inhalation from an onboard fire which can produce nasty fumes. i carry 4 bottles, which is one for each member of my typical offshore crew. gum, because, as famously stated by Kevin Costner in The Guardian, it "keeps the sea out", as well as maintaining alertness. a good multitool, because it provides all the functions of a toolkit, for whatever purpose may arise. duct tape- obvious reasons. cable ties- similar to duct tape, i can fix anything with zipties. ziplock bags, to keep personal effects (wallets, cell phones, etc) dry, as well as catching rainstorm water if you do have to survive for awhile. sunglasses, prevents eye fatigue and allows crewmembers to search for aircraft on a sunny day. sunscreen, because a bad sunburn will facilitate hypothermia once night falls. also, copies of registration papers and other vital documents shoud be kept in the ditch bag to help with Coast Guard inquiries and sorting out of incident reports.

additionally, from my perspective, my ditch bag is for absolute emergencies only, ones that result in the actual ABANDONING OF THE VESSEL. meaning, the flares, med kit, and documents inside my ditch bag are all redundant; there is a better, larger med kit and flare kit that are kept in other locations in the boat, for use should a medical emergency occur that does not correlate with sinking, or if the boat is disabled and i need to shoot flares to bring rescuers to the vessel. my thinking is, if i do not tough the equipment in the bag unless im leaving the boat (aside from testing and resupply as items expire), then all the equipment will be there when i need it. ideally, in the case of an abandon ship scenario, i will have my ditch bag, boat med kit, and boat flare kit in my life raft with me and my crew. but, even if the only thing i can grab is my ditch bag, i will have the equipment to summon and attract rescuers to my position.
 
One thing I heard a long time ago has always stuck with me.
Never step DOWN into a life raft.
Stay with the boat until you absolutely, positively must step UP into a life raft.
 
Megabyte":27gz7i4x said:
One thing I heard a long time ago has always stuck with me.
Never step DOWN into a life raft.
Stay with the boat until you absolutely, positively must step UP into a life raft.

most DEFINATELY!!! which is the reason for the separate boat kits and ditch bag. use up the boat supplies first, then have everything i need in the bag in case i do end up in the water. the only acception i can see is in the case of fire; i might not want to wait until i have to step up. i dont pack THAT many burn dressings :wink:
 
Megabyte":3j4lkxzx said:
One thing I heard a long time ago has always stuck with me.
Never step DOWN into a life raft.
Stay with the boat until you absolutely, positively must step UP into a life raft.

I might be taking you too literally. I agree that unless the boat is on fire or has turtled, stay with the boat.

What I'm not understanding is the Never step down part. Is that just a jingle to help you remember to stay with your boat or are you suggesting that there is something inherently wrong or dangerous about boarding a life raft by stepping down into it?

Revere video shows that either approach is acceptable.

http://www.reveresupply.com/revere_2008/2_videos.html

Click on the life raft image to see the video.
 
The thought is to never abandon ship and get into a raft unless you know that the ship is lost. Too many time people have abandoned their boat, only to have the CG find it still floating and seeing it towed back to the dock.

The point is... if the boat is still afloat, don't step down into the raft and abandon the boat. Only step up into the raft if the boat is actually going under.

It is much easier for the CG to find a boat than it is to try and locate a raft. Don't make your recovery harder for the rescuers by prematurely abandoning the object that is more easily spotted.

Make sense?
 
Yes, OK, I get it. The statement doesn't have anything to do with the "proper" way to enter a life raft, it's just a way to remind everyone that the only time to actually get into your raft is if the boat is "under" water and sunk.

Sometimes, me thinks too much.... :oops:
 
TheOtherLine":3rftcfx3 said:
Sometimes, me thinks too much.... :oops:

Not at all!
It's just the difference between the typed word and the spoken word. 8)
 
After all this talk about DB contents, I actually weighed mine.

26lbs! :shock: :shock: :shock:

There is no way that puppy is going to float and there is nothing in there that I am willing to "ditch".

I think my ditch bag is going to need it's own life jacket. :p

Take a look at my "stuff" and tell me what you would be willing to do without. Remember, I'm offshore 50-100 miles. Not a lot of other boats around.
 

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hmm. well, the first thing is, if your water is stored on the outside of the bag, in that pocket, you can all but discount its weight. reason being, because its water suspended in water, it will displace most of its own weight. the same principle could be used with the line; replace whats there with floating line and attach it to the outside of the bag. this serves two purposes- first of all, it removes (some) weight, and also, it allows you to access the line in order to tether people and equipment together while in the water without opening the bag. i cant really see what flashlights there in the picture, you might be able to replace it with a smaller, lighter model. i like the ACR Firefly plus, which is a flashlight and strobe plus is waterproof. check your flare selection, too. i know i just found these the other night, http://www.pwss.com/ProductSpec.aspx?ProductId=117&CatId=1. theyre a flare/smoke combo from Pains Wessex that combines the two, which could cut down on your weight. also, i would recommend moving all but the most vital of your flares to another container, and leaving maybe 1 parachute, 2 small rockets (skyblazers), and two of the PWs above in the bag. this will cut down on weight; if necessary, tether the two bags together. maybe a smaller med kit? keep the main one outside the bag, and put one together to address just the most basic injuries. remember, if youre floating in the water, a whole bag full of medical stuff is going to be virtually useless because most of its gonna be wet. as to outright ditching stuff, i would get rid of the MREs. humans can survive without food for a very long time, and the MREs are going to be tough to eat in the water anyway. a Powerbar per person is most likely going to be far sufficient. try those out and see if that helps get your weight down :wink:

remember, as we have seen very recently, survival at sea is quite basic. you need to stay warm, out of the water (if possible) and visible. In the case of the NFL players, the survivor clung to the top of a boat, with no supplies at all, and noone knowing where he was at or even that he was in trouble, for 2 days. your PLB is going to let the CG know youre in distress, and your approximate position. the flares will get you seen. everything else is gravy, and preparation for is something goes really wrong. you can never prepare for every scenario, but you can cover most of your bases pretty well.
 
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