Parker 34 Project Recap from NE Boat Show and some Pics

[Capt.Guy]

Went to the ALBINOWNERS site looks alot like our site with one major exception....Everyone is crying about SOOT & NOISE ...OH WELL :?

 

[pelagic2530]

Some 28's, like the Carolinas which I would love to own, I couldn't afford to run and maintain.

in some ways, i would have to agree, but for me, the twin 300 hp yanmars in the CC are currntly more fuel efficient than my outboards :shock: ive heard an average burn of 14-16 gph @ 24-26 knots, where im currently burning, um, lets see, about 22 @ 22-24 knots :shock: :shock: :shock: . also, the CC has twins, a feature i really like for the security, and a tower. come on, lottery!!

 

[Outta Here]

Went to the ALBINOWNERS site looks alot like our site with one major exception....Everyone is crying about SOOT & NOISE ...OH WELL :?

:lol: :lol: :lol: ...and the price of diesel fuel?...... :lol:

 

[Megabyte]

DO you think there is a CLASSIC-ALBIN site? :lol:

Well actually there is... kinda sorta.
And, it uses the same forum software as we do.

http://www.albinowners.com/aog/

 

[Parker]

I am curious as to whether there is a market for a 34 Parker with outboards. I imagine the Parker will run some where north of 150K fully rigged. At that price range there are many options, such as used Albe, Carolina Classic, Henriques, etc. Not to mention custom Downeast boats and Chessy deadrises. If I am not mistaken when Parker first came out with the 28 it was the extended cabin version and b/c of the price it did not sell well. When the boat was retooled with the XL cabin and the price lowered sales seem to have taken off. Although, I am very pleased with the Parker I think I would shop around before going to a 34 with outboard. (not that I have to worry about such problems) Still nice to dream.

 

[Megabyte]

Hey Kevin,,, Did the owner of that 35 Markley get clearance from you on the name of his vessel? :shock:

Or did you already make the move over to the Markley, and just didn't have the heart to tell us!

You noticed huh?
Not yet! My money tree hasn't bloomed.

That photo was taken two years ago just north of Bloody Point Lighthouse.
The Admiral and I were drift fishing in the area in early December, and had heard someone else using the Megabyte handle that sounded close...

Imagine my suprise when this Markley eased on past for another drift.

That is Capt Billy Williams out of South River in that very nice 35 Markley. 8)
Not sure who had the name first, but I'm willing to share. She is a pretty boat. :wink:

 

[Mariner]

Hi there. I'm one of the administrators over at www.albinowners.com

First off, I was pleased to see you guys think so highly of the Albin boats. As you may or may not have heard, Albin has recently shut it's doors. So, if you've been salivating over a nice new 28' Albin Tournament Express, you'll have to settle for a used one.

My main reason for posting was just to clear something up. I don't think our members "cry" about soot or noise. In fact, everyone seems to LOVE their reliable and efficient diesel inboards. We've had a few new members ask about whether soot build-up is normal (it's not), or if smoke on start-up is common (it is). It's true Albin doesn't use much sound-proofing in the engine compartment, but the complaining comes more from people's high expectations after making the switch from noisy ouboards. No, the complaining is more related to fit and finnish and Albin's customer service. Problems that have very little to do with diesel powerplants.

The Peninsular engine seems to have a worse reputation than Lucifer himself, but our members all report no serious problems. In fact, there is currently a lengthy discussion about quality control problems and a recall on the Yanmar powerplant. Not owning either, I can't really say one way or the other. But the Peninsular owners all seem to agree that it's reputation is not deserved, but that it was a great help in negotiating a lower purchase price.

I also own a Boston Whaler and spend a lot of time over at www.continuouswave.com, which is another company that, for some reason, seems to be hell-bent on repopulating the world with outboard engines by producing as many twins and triplets as possible. So, I found this discussion quite interesting. I agree, that it doesn't seem to matter to them what the best product is, it's simply easier and cheaper for them to just rig the boats with outboards.

I firmly believe that most boats over about 25' should be powered by diesels. And more diesel outboard options should be available as well so that diesel owners can draw on a single fuel supply for their trolling motors and tenders. The safety, weight distribution, reliability, and efficiency benefits are well worth the cost.

And as for crying about the cost of diesel, I don't know if any of you have noticed, but off-road marine diesel is actually CHEAPER than gasoline, thanks to the tax exemption. Here, it's about 50 cents a gallon cheaper, which means I save about $200 on a full load of fuel.

 

[Mariner]

Oh, and as for our low membership numbers; I aggressively prune inactive accounts, keeping our numbers low.

 

[Outta Here]

. As you may or may not have heard, Albin has recently shut it's doors.

hmmmm.....could help explain why Parker, Grady and others don't offer diesel....no demand?

Grady used to offer diesel sterndrives and gas inboards, Parker used to offer sterndrives. No takers. Only Grady diesel I've ever seen was at Miami Boat Show.

 

[B-Faithful]

Wow! Albins are VERY popular around here....

 

[greatcir]

Just my experience with diesels on a past boat for what it is worth. My choice was twin diesel or twin gas (inboards). I took the diesels thinking reliability, fuel savings, safety and resale. They were considerably heavier (not sure about OBs same HP) than the twin gas inboards I could have had for the same horsepower. So I lugged around more poundage for the same horsepower for the years I had the boat and I had a deeper draft and lost some top end speed compared to gas. I paid more for the diesels and got a bit more when I sold the boat becasue of the diesels.

The diesel engine mounts were critical to dampen the engine vibration from the hull and stringers as there was a big noise and vibration potential. It took a lot of sound insulation (and space) to keep the engines fairly quiet. The odor of the fuel and the exhaust bothered the admiral all the while I had the boat and I never blew blue or white smoke. The transmission on the diesels were stout and heavy.

The computers on the diesels took away some of my reliability value as they could quit. The diesels used a huge amount of air so I had larger than normal intakes. Closed cooling took up horsepower. After a few years I got algae in my tanks and it would turn filters black and stop an engine. Happened to me in heavy seas once and had a devil of a time priming the diesel to restart. Got so it was just part of maintenance to add BioBor to control the algae even after cleaning out the tanks. The return fuel lines kept my fuel warmer than I liked as diesels use the excess fuel to cool the injectors. I added a fuel polishing system to help keep the fuel clean. I carried big Cat batteries for starting. The fuel meters had to be in the supply and return lines.

Down in the engine area (as opposed to outboards) It was super tight to change fuel filters, oil, belts, etc. And I had to winterize them and change exhaust risers where the hot salt water did its erosion. Impellers and water pumps were fairly easy to service. After a number of engine hours, the engines started to ooze oil into the bilge so had a 4 sided dam under each engine to catch the oil and kept absorbent pads in the dams so the bilge pump only pumped out clean water.

What does this all lead to? Well I now have a Parker with an 4s Yam OB so no winterizing, no algae (maybe ethanol issues), no odors, and quiet. I can tip the engine up to see if weeds are on the prop or to run in very skinny water. I can change the prop at the dock. No tight engine room for any servicing. No fuel or oil in the bilge. I can repower without gutting the boat if I ever want to. And I can go fast. Reminds me of the time I had a swimming pool as I do not miss it at all, but I had to have it to understand. So my life now without a diesel engine room (or area) is exactly what this old boater enjoys today. Happy boating no matter what you burn. I like the big boys with flocks of OBs on the stern. ......................Lazy Pete

 

[Oscar]

Pete, your diesel vs 4s O/B comparison was great reading and sure made the point for endorsing the KISS theory as we age. Time is short - the less time we have to spend to maintain things, the more time we have to enjoy the water. Instead of signing your post "Lazy Pete" it should be "Smart Pete"!

 

[Outta Here]

Pete's dead on. :wink:

 

[JWL]

Why have to huge 350 hp out boards off the back (which will weigh over 1600 lbs) when you have one very effect diesel inboard.
quote]

OB vs. diesel, OB advantages include...

Way faster, quiter, clears deck space (roomier boat), idles smoother, no diesel smell, easier to maintain, less draft, lighter weight, lower initial cost, less electrolsis (motors out of water), similar engine lifespans and fuel costs.

I'm sure there's more, all I can think of right now. :wink:

I seriously question your comment about fuel economy, even with the increased cost of diesel fuel over gasoline. I know someone who works for Yamaha and recently ran a Century 29' CC with twin F350's. Granted, the top speed was impressive at 50 mph with three people on board an 3/4 tank of fuel but, the fuel burn was 66 gallons per hour at WOT. I know I would take a slower speed for the increased fuel economy. Remember, this was run by Yamaha personnel with the boat properly rigged. Century is owned by Yamaha and they rigged and propped the boat for best performance.

What do you think a similar boat would report with diesel?

 

[JWL]

Whats with Parker being so stubborn with Yamaha outboards only ???
If they are planning a 34 ft model, they should put a Yanmar diesel in it !
I would think that with a planing hull that size, they could get great speed with incredible fuel economy !

I can answer the question about Parker's stubborness regarding Yamahas only. And, this includes all boat manufacturers who rig with Yamaha. Some boats Yamaha owns so they will only come with Yamahas. Others not owned by Yamaha offer huge incentives offer only Yamaha. This, of course, adds to manufacturers bottom line profits. Certainly Parker isn't the only manufacturer to take advantage of this, just look at Grady White. This decision by a boat manufacturer has nothing to do with what engine they believe is best but solely for profit motives.

This type of incentive extends to boat dealers as well. Yamaha offers better warranty compensation and parts prices for those dealers that only sell Yamaha products. I wouldn't be surprised if Mercury, Evinrude, et al didn't have the same type of incentives. I'm not saying anything wrong with these practices, in fact it is good business. Remember, Mercury and OMC, for years, had a much larger base of boats they owned to market their engines through. Yamaha has over the years bought quite a few boat manufacturers in order to get their engines out.

 

[Mariner]

Just my experience with diesels on a past boat for what it is worth. My choice was twin diesel or twin gas (inboards). I took the diesels thinking reliability, fuel savings, safety and resale. They were considerably heavier (not sure about OBs same HP) than the twin gas inboards I could have had for the same horsepower. So I lugged around more poundage for the same horsepower for the years I had the boat and I had a deeper draft and lost some top end speed compared to gas. I paid more for the diesels and got a bit more when I sold the boat becasue of the diesels.

Diesels do weigh more than gas. I can't argue with that. But you're really talking about two different issues. Inboard vs outboard and once you decide to go inboard, then you're talking gas vs. diesel. Everyone's use is diferent. There are reasons that people choose to go outboard, based on their boating environment that I will get into later. But Inboards offer better weight distribution. This is something that is more important than draft or weed fouling to people who use their boats offshore or in deep water. In Florida or on the lakes of Tennessee, sure, draft is important. But in the Northeast and Northwest, depths under 40' are rare. Who cares about draft? Weight distribution and stability are more important. As for overall weight, the extra weight is outweighed (pardon the pun) by the fact that it's more strategically placed. Again, this applies only to boats over about 25' and 5000#.

The diesel engine mounts were critical to dampen the engine vibration from the hull and stringers as there was a big noise and vibration potential. It took a lot of sound insulation (and space) to keep the engines fairly quiet. The odor of the fuel and the exhaust bothered the admiral all the while I had the boat and I never blew blue or white smoke. The transmission on the diesels were stout and heavy.

Outboard engine mounts are just as critical, they are just part of the bolt-on package. I'm not sure I understand how this is such a bad thing. Engine mounts are just one of those things where once the engine is installed, you should probably check them for tighness once a year or so (just as you should check the mounting bolts on an outboard), but other than that, they're maintenence free. If you were smelling fuel at any time other than at the fuel dock, you probably had a leak, or an improperly functioning vent. As for the smoke, if you experienced smoke at any time other than startup, your engine was in a state of disrepair or had the wrong propeller or something. If your wife thinks that boating is nothing other than lounging around and enjoying cocktails in the sun, I can't really help you there. You're going to get fuel and exhaust smells occasionally no matter what kind of fuel you run.

The computers on the diesels took away some of my reliability value as they could quit. The diesels used a huge amount of air so I had larger than normal intakes. Closed cooling took up horsepower. After a few years I got algae in my tanks and it would turn filters black and stop an engine. Happened to me in heavy seas once and had a devil of a time priming the diesel to restart. Got so it was just part of maintenance to add BioBor to control the algae even after cleaning out the tanks. The return fuel lines kept my fuel warmer than I liked as diesels use the excess fuel to cool the injectors. I added a fuel polishing system to help keep the fuel clean. I carried big Cat batteries for starting. The fuel meters had to be in the supply and return lines.

Your fancy new outboards are computer controlled too. They can die just as easily. Diesels are actually usually easier to get running by bypassing the computer than a gas outboard. Was the large air intake that much of a problem? I don't get that? What difference does that make? Who cares? Closed cooling make take up horsepower, but it also vastly extends engine life and reliability. They don't bother with it on outboards because most outboards are used in freshwater, where it's not necessary. Fuel filters should be changed yearly on a diesel, just as they should on a gas boat. Most diesels now are equipped with a dual filter bypass system so that you will never have to stop to replace the filter. Just flip the lever while underway, and replace it at your convenience. Algae does grow in diesels, but with modern recirculating systems, that's been eliminated or largely reduced. I'm not sure why the fuel temperature bothered you. It's supposed to be warm. That's part of what prevents algae buildup.

Down in the engine area (as opposed to outboards) It was super tight to change fuel filters, oil, belts, etc. And I had to winterize them and change exhaust risers where the hot salt water did its erosion. Impellers and water pumps were fairly easy to service. After a number of engine hours, the engines started to ooze oil into the bilge so had a 4 sided dam under each engine to catch the oil and kept absorbent pads in the dams so the bilge pump only pumped out clean water.

Diesel engines are no more likely to leak oil than a gasoline four stroke. The difference is that in your outboard, it just leaked directly out into the water and you never saw it. You're supposed to winterize outboards. A closed-cooling system diesel requires no winterization. Exhaust risers are easier to replace than engine blocks, which also corrode in the saltwater.

What does this all lead to? Well I now have a Parker with an 4s Yam OB so no winterizing, no algae (maybe ethanol issues), no odors, and quiet. I can tip the engine up to see if weeds are on the prop or to run in very skinny water. I can change the prop at the dock. No tight engine room for any servicing. No fuel or oil in the bilge. I can repower without gutting the boat if I ever want to. And I can go fast. Reminds me of the time I had a swimming pool as I do not miss it at all, but I had to have it to understand. So my life now without a diesel engine room (or area) is exactly what this old boater enjoys today. Happy boating no matter what you burn. I like the big boys with flocks of OBs on the stern. ......................Lazy Pete

In my opinion, it's a good thing that your outboards are easy to replace, because they will probably have to be replaced four times before a comperable single diesel engine would need to even be overhauled.



I'm by no means suggesting that diesels are right for every boat. But as you get larger, they become more and more practical in most cases. Personally, I'm willing to live with some of the minor inconveniences of a diesel for the huge payoff in terms of reliability, efficiency, and longevity.

 

[Outta Here]

:lol: This has got to be the most mis-information ever posted @ CP :shock: For starters:

Someone's comparing a 50 MPH 29' Century MPG's to a 20 MPH diesel (when it would be impossible to fit a diesel in the Century anyway, the weight would sink it). Not to mention the racket or stench and vibrating.

"Century is owned by Yamaha"? Yamaha "inherited" Century a few years ago. As far as I know, the debt was paid and Century is now a free-standing co.

"Boat builders' decision to use Yamaha has nothing to do with motor quality, rather only what's best for profit margin"? That makes no sense at all. Regulator, for example would use Tohatsu if the price was right? Knowledgeable boaters are buying only the hull and don't care about motor brand? :?

"Yamaha has bought quite a few boat manufacturers"? Huh, name some. Yamaha has bought some aluminum boat companies in the mid west as Brunswick attempted to buy all of the market. I think Yamaha owns 1 bass boat co.

"Outboards must also be winterized" Double Huh? I winterize mine by tilting it down so water runs out. That's it.

As to the negative remark concerning someone's wife who "Expected boating to be an enjoyable adventure...on a cocktail cruise into the sunset" Well...maybe YOU should try some Yamahas...she's right. :wink:

 

[Wicho]

:lol: This has got to be the most mis-information ever posted @ CP :shock:

x2 imho

 

[JWL]

:lol: This has got to be the most mis-information ever posted @ CP :shock: For starters:

Someone's comparing a 50 MPH 29' Century MPG's to a 20 MPH diesel (when it would be impossible to fit a diesel in the Century anyway, the weight would sink it). Not to mention the racket or stench and vibrating.

"Century is owned by Yamaha"? Yamaha "inherited" Century a few years ago. As far as I know, the debt was paid and Century is now a free-standing co.

"Boat builders' decision to use Yamaha has nothing to do with motor quality, rather only what's best for profit margin"? That makes no sense at all. Regulator, for example would use Tohatsu if the price was right? Knowledgeable boaters are buying only the hull and don't care about motor brand? :?

"Yamaha has bought quite a few boat manufacturers"? Huh, name some. Yamaha has bought some aluminum boat companies in the mid west as Brunswick attempted to buy all of the market. I think Yamaha owns 1 bass boat co.

"Outboards must also be winterized" Double Huh? I winterize mine by tilting it down so water runs out. That's it.

As to the negative remark concerning someone's wife who "Expected boating to be an enjoyable adventure...on a cocktail cruise into the sunset" Well...maybe YOU should try some Yamahas...she's right. :wink:

Yamaha still owns still owns Century. They also own Skeeter Bass Boats and the G 3 Boats. They pay, through incentives, boat manufacturers to rig there boats with Yamahas. Again, I have no problem with this concept or practice. My point is, Yamaha pays manufacturers such as Parker and Grady to rig their boats with their product. If Parker et al could get a better deal with Honda for example, their boats would be rigged with Honda.

 

[chrisn]

Pretty funny stuff!!!!! I grew up fishing on large bertrams and i can say this about every single one of those diesel engines. Most of them stink, most of them are over injected and most of them smoke to high hell. Anybody who tells you differently is fudging! For starters the boats have to be built to accept the diesle option and parker has decided to forgoe that way of boat building which means a whole lot in the weight department. I for one think like the speed of my 2520xld which would definitely evapaporate with a diesel. on top of that it can be a very cramped situation as far as changing of systems in an engine box. DON"T TELL ME NO!! IT"S TRUE!! Hell, it sucked being on the outboard of an Detroit 892 in seas on a 50 foot!!!

Now for the outboards. I can only say this from A LOT of experience. I have had mercury when they were the powerhouse, BLAH! I have had evinrude when they were the powerhouse, BLAH! I have had Yahamas when they were or were not the powerhouse and i have yet to have any serious problems. My only problem with a Yamaha four stroke 250 was water in the fuel from the marina. The engine warned me, i had my tanks drained, changed filters frquently and presto no problems.

Gas engines are not for everybody, and neither are diesels. Diesels serve a purpose in life for LARGE boats where lower RPM's make for lasting mechanicals, but I will tell you this. Many manufacturers constanly over stimulated smaller blocks with awful results to save on weight and price.

Well that is just my two cents for what its worth.